When you're both not interested chivalry seems to go out the window (dating, women)
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Since April I've met about 6 guys off an online dating site. I was attracted to/interested in 3 out of the 6, and the attraction/interest was mutual. The other 3 (the last one being this past Friday night), I tried my best to be polite and hold an interesting conversation for the most part even though I knew there would be no future dates as there was no interest, on my part at least. However what I find interesting is that these 3 men who I had no interest in seemed to be not interested in me as well. Which is fine but a bit weird as I often hear stories of quite the opposite where people are interested in someone however the other doesn't feel the same and vice versa. While I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, these men have been considerably less physically attractive then the other 3 men who were interested in me. While I don't think looks are everything and I do place more emphasis on personality, I found these men to lack a sense of humor and have somewhat of a dry personality as well. So I was wondering, are these guys not interested in me because I come across as uninterested in them (without realizing it)? Again I try to be the best date possible, even if I am not interested, however when I'm not interested I have noticed I ask less questions, and don't really flirt at whatsoever.
And a thing that really irritates me is, I usually have my meetups in the evening after 8pm, so by the time we leave the place it's usually around 10pm, only one of out of these 3 men walked me to my car (my car never being more than a block away) which I find incredibly rude, whether you're interested or not. And for those who say a woman may not want you to walk her to her car, that maybe true, but it never hurts to ask. To be honest I probably would've told them its not necessary (the one guy insisted, but then again he was a cop), but I feel as though at 10pm on a non busy street a man should at least offer to walk a woman to her car. Any other women find this annoying? Or am I the only unreasonable one? lol
First: Yes, I'm sure they could tell you weren't interested. I've been down that particular road and even a dork like me who generally needs hints such as "I hate you" to get it into my head that a woman isn't interested could often tell.
Second: Even though you weren't interested, you were bothered when THEY didn't show interest anyway? Enough to want to analyze it so you can what, correct it?
I'll briefly restate a little scenario I mentioned a couple of days ago.
Guy: Confession, I'm gay.
Guy2: *shrinks away*
Guy: Relax, I'm not attracted to you.
Guy2: *indignantly* Why not? What's the matter with me?
Third: I don't know how often this has happened to other guys, but I've offered to walk a woman to her car after a bad date more than once in my life, and been told not just no thanks, but "No, thank you, I'll be fine."
"But it's late."
"I said I'll be FINE." Point made and point taken. This is OVER, b'bye!
It's entirely possible this is has happened to the guy. With the date not only over but failed, it's not so much a lack of chivalry, more that it's DONE, you're no longer his concern.
I realize that may come off as TOO businesslike and even misogynistic, but most women don't stop to really think about how in the modern age chivalry is not so much a thing men stopped doing as a thing women learned to take advantage of, and we're not so blind and stupid we can't see it. Chivalry is sort of a big Catch-22 whereby deferent privilege is expected in the name of "simple human decency and courtesy" WHILE if a woman is turned off but a guy's intentions are still completely honorable, she's perfectly free to snub his chivalrous overtures all by her strong, empowered self.
If he offers and she doesn't want it, he's a chauvinist.
If he doesn't and she wants it, he's a cad.
If he doesn't and she doesn't want it, he's a jerk anyway for treating her discourteously.
If he offers and she wants it, she was already interested.
That's how that one plays out. It's been so for a few decades now and the idea has taken hold. There are myriad other social factors at play, most definitely; but that one applies to your questions.
Chivalry and equality can't coexist. One is a sociopolitical statement regarding equals in as many regards as humanly possible, the other a relic of privilege, even if a minor one.
First: Yes, I'm sure they could tell you weren't interested. I've been down that particular road and even a dork like me who generally needs hints such as "I hate you" to get it into my head that a woman isn't interested could often tell.
Second: Even though you weren't interested, you were bothered when THEY didn't show interest anyway? Enough to want to analyze it so you can what, correct it?
I'll briefly restate a little scenario I mentioned a couple of days ago.
Guy: Confession, I'm gay.
Guy2: *shrinks away*
Guy: Relax, I'm not attracted to you.
Guy2: *indignantly* Why not? What's the matter with me?
Third: I don't know how often this has happened to other guys, but I've offered to walk a woman to her car after a bad date more than once in my life, and been told not just no thanks, but "No, thank you, I'll be fine."
"But it's late."
"I said I'll be FINE." Point made and point taken. This is OVER, b'bye!
It's entirely possible this is has happened to the guy. With the date not only over but failed, it's not so much a lack of chivalry, more that it's DONE, you're no longer his concern.
I realize that may come off as TOO businesslike and even misogynistic, but most women don't stop to really think about how in the modern age chivalry is not so much a thing men stopped doing as a thing women learned to take advantage of, and we're not so blind and stupid we can't see it. Chivalry is sort of a big Catch-22 whereby deferent privilege is expected in the name of "simple human decency and courtesy" WHILE if a woman is turned off but a guy's intentions are still completely honorable, she's perfectly free to snub his chivalrous overtures all by her strong, empowered self.
If he offers and she doesn't want it, he's a chauvinist.
If he doesn't and she wants it, he's a cad.
If he doesn't and she doesn't want it, he's a jerk anyway for treating her discourteously.
If he offers and she wants it, she was already interested.
That's how that one plays out. It's been so for a few decades now and the idea has taken hold. There are myriad other social factors at play, most definitely; but that one applies to your questions.
Chivalry and equality can't coexist. One is a sociopolitical statement regarding equals in as many regards as humanly possible, the other a relic of privilege, even if a minor one.
I guess maybe it's an ego thing, its like when you go on a job interview and you realize that the job isn't for you, you kinda still want to get the offer anyway even though you're going to decline. So I guess I'm guilty of that.
As for the walking a woman to her car, I don't agree that equality can't co-exist with chivalry. To say since a woman wants equal pay as a man, then he doesn't have to walk her to her car, makes no sense to me. I can't speak for other women, but when that one man who I mentioned did insist on walking me to my car because the neighborhood was a bit questionable, the only thing that went through my head was "wow what a nice guy", and I was not romantically interested in him, but I can still acknowledge a nice guy with polite manners. I can kind of see where you're coming from, but it does not apply to all women, some of us still a little chivalry whether we are interested in a man or not, we can still appreciate it the same.
First: Yes, I'm sure they could tell you weren't interested. I've been down that particular road and even a dork like me who generally needs hints such as "I hate you" to get it into my head that a woman isn't interested could often tell.
Second: Even though you weren't interested, you were bothered when THEY didn't show interest anyway? Enough to want to analyze it so you can what, correct it?
I'll briefly restate a little scenario I mentioned a couple of days ago.
Guy: Confession, I'm gay.
Guy2: *shrinks away*
Guy: Relax, I'm not attracted to you.
Guy2: *indignantly* Why not? What's the matter with me?
Third: I don't know how often this has happened to other guys, but I've offered to walk a woman to her car after a bad date more than once in my life, and been told not just no thanks, but "No, thank you, I'll be fine."
"But it's late."
"I said I'll be FINE." Point made and point taken. This is OVER, b'bye!
It's entirely possible this is has happened to the guy. With the date not only over but failed, it's not so much a lack of chivalry, more that it's DONE, you're no longer his concern.
I realize that may come off as TOO businesslike and even misogynistic, but most women don't stop to really think about how in the modern age chivalry is not so much a thing men stopped doing as a thing women learned to take advantage of, and we're not so blind and stupid we can't see it. Chivalry is sort of a big Catch-22 whereby deferent privilege is expected in the name of "simple human decency and courtesy" WHILE if a woman is turned off but a guy's intentions are still completely honorable, she's perfectly free to snub his chivalrous overtures all by her strong, empowered self.
If he offers and she doesn't want it, he's a chauvinist.
If he doesn't and she wants it, he's a cad.
If he doesn't and she doesn't want it, he's a jerk anyway for treating her discourteously.
If he offers and she wants it, she was already interested.
That's how that one plays out. It's been so for a few decades now and the idea has taken hold. There are myriad other social factors at play, most definitely; but that one applies to your questions.
Chivalry and equality can't coexist. One is a sociopolitical statement regarding equals in as many regards as humanly possible, the other a relic of privilege, even if a minor one.
Chivalry is out the window when there's not connection. For the male or the female. This same scenario happened when I had a FWB. She would get upset with me when she wanted to mess around and I just didn't have any time for her, unless I was drinking and it was later. One night I was drinking and I said that she could come over. She lit in to me about how she felt and how I came off as not valuing her. I finally said are you going to talk all night about how I mistreat you, or are you going to get naked with me in the bedroom? She got naked.
It was ego for her. As long as I still wanted to sleep with her, she would get upset, but she would still want to mess around. It's just what happens when someone's ego gets a little bruised. They want the reaffirmation.
Since April I've met about 6 guys off an online dating site. I was attracted to/interested in 3 out of the 6, and the attraction/interest was mutual. The other 3 (the last one being this past Friday night), I tried my best to be polite and hold an interesting conversation for the most part even though I knew there would be no future dates as there was no interest, on my part at least. However what I find interesting is that these 3 men who I had no interest in seemed to be not interested in me as well. Which is fine but a bit weird as I often hear stories of quite the opposite where people are interested in someone however the other doesn't feel the same and vice versa. While I know beauty is in the eye of the beholder, these men have been considerably less physically attractive then the other 3 men who were interested in me. While I don't think looks are everything and I do place more emphasis on personality, I found these men to lack a sense of humor and have somewhat of a dry personality as well. So I was wondering, are these guys not interested in me because I come across as uninterested in them (without realizing it)? Again I try to be the best date possible, even if I am not interested, however when I'm not interested I have noticed I ask less questions, and don't really flirt at whatsoever.
And a thing that really irritates me is, I usually have my meetups in the evening after 8pm, so by the time we leave the place it's usually around 10pm, only one of out of these 3 men walked me to my car (my car never being more than a block away) which I find incredibly rude, whether you're interested or not. And for those who say a woman may not want you to walk her to her car, that maybe true, but it never hurts to ask. To be honest I probably would've told them its not necessary (the one guy insisted, but then again he was a cop), but I feel as though at 10pm on a non busy street a man should at least offer to walk a woman to her car. Any other women find this annoying? Or am I the only unreasonable one? lol
I think Urban's right. For me, my attraction to someone is proportional to their attraction for me. I am interested in people who are interested in me, and I am not interested in people who aren't interested in me. Sure, you could probably mask yourself more and be warmer and flirtier and maybe fool them into being warm and flirty back ... but why? You aren't interested in them. Don't hold their lack of interest in you against them.
Also, if you don't want a man to walk you to your car, I think it's pointless to want him to offer anyway just so you can decline. I totally understand wanting someone to walk you to your car (in which case I'd expect you to drive him to his car and make sure he is safely on his way too), but it's apparently not scary enough outside that it's really important to you. What you are hoping for is thus a meaningless gesture. If it really is important to you after all, my suggestion is simply to ask, "Would you mind walking me to my car?" and then make sure he gets to his vehicle too. I believe nearly every man, even the ones with whom there is no chemistry, will do so, and then you don't have to have the disappointment that one you liked failed a test. Maybe they assume you'll say no because you seem so capable and it's not that scary outside (and it seems like you'd agree) or they're confused about What Women Want Nowadays. Just ask for what you want. If you don't really want it, let it go. And good luck!
I guess maybe it's an ego thing, its like when you go on a job interview and you realize that the job isn't for you, you kinda still want to get the offer anyway even though you're going to decline. So I guess I'm guilty of that.
As for the walking a woman to her car, I don't agree that equality can't co-exist with chivalry. To say since a woman wants equal pay as a man, then he doesn't have to walk her to her car, makes no sense to me. I can't speak for other women, but when that one man who I mentioned did insist on walking me to my car because the neighborhood was a bit questionable, the only thing that went through my head was "wow what a nice guy", and I was not romantically interested in him, but I can still acknowledge a nice guy with polite manners. I can kind of see where you're coming from, but it does not apply to all women, some of us still a little chivalry whether we are interested in a man or not, we can still appreciate it the same.
Actually, I think I addressed that one pretty clearly. Equality as a movement has been SOOOOOOOO much more than "equal pay" for nearly my entire life, and I'm 48 in a couple of days.
Holding doors: I can't tell you how many times over my life I've been chewed out for holding them.
Walking a woman somewhere: I already cited that. Lots more incidents, but it gets redundant.
Taking a woman's hand to 'help' her from a chair or car: If she's not interested, it generally spells nasty looks.
Holding or pulling a woman's chair: It gets you weird and even resentful looks.
The list goes on, and it generally holds true unless the woman is attracted to you. If Hugh Jackman looked more like Fred Armisen that whole bit with Meg Ryan would have fallen flat instead of having women dreamily say "I wish guys still acted like that."
I don't care, I still do those things; but lots of guys are told not to often enough, and hear how women don't owe THEM simple courtesies often enough, that it's falling very much by the wayside after a moderate renewal.
I'm sorry you feel slighted when a guy you weren't interested in didn't offer to walk you to your car, but men didn't just DROP chivalry all on their own, they had some help along the way whether YOU are guilty of it or not.
Try a social experiment or two.
Next time you see some people who are clearly on a coffee-date in order to meet, and she's on her way out unescorted, butt in and ask her whether she'd appreciate the offer, or whether she cares at all. Play a little anthropology game. It won't hurt you and might surprise you.
I think Urban's right. For me, my attraction to someone is proportional to their attraction for me. I am interested in people who are interested in me, and I am not interested in people who aren't interested in me. Sure, you could probably mask yourself more and be warmer and flirtier and maybe fool them into being warm and flirty back ... but why? You aren't interested in them. Don't hold their lack of interest in you against them.
Also, if you don't want a man to walk you to your car, I think it's pointless to want him to offer anyway just so you can decline. I totally understand wanting someone to walk you to your car (in which case I'd expect you to drive him to his car and make sure he is safely on his way too), but it's apparently not scary enough outside that it's really important to you. What you are hoping for is thus a meaningless gesture. If it really is important to you after all, my suggestion is simply to ask, "Would you mind walking me to my car?" and then make sure he gets to his vehicle too. I believe nearly every man, even the ones with whom there is no chemistry, will do so, and then you don't have to have the disappointment that one you liked failed a test. Maybe they assume you'll say no because you seem so capable and it's not that scary outside (and it seems like you'd agree) or they're confused about What Women Want Nowadays. Just ask for what you want. If you don't really want it, let it go. And good luck!
^^^^This.
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