On Monogamy and 'The Discussion' (female, loving, cheated, Valentine's Day)
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Negligees are just another thing in the way of getting down. Toys are props for fun. I personally am not real into them, but each to their own.
Intimacy is in the heart and mind. Not with toys, or scanty clothing.
Wait now it is with the heart and mind? I thought it was with WORDS? If intimacy is in the heart and mind (it is) then so is fidelity. And fidelity is not "I won't do what I really want to if you agree to not do what your really want to". Which bring us full-circle to the only issue I ever really had with this; that AFTER the 'intimate' things from the keys on down, he did the very same things the next day. "Agreement" or not. Thus there was no intimacy in his heart or mind. I assumed based on how I view things AND the things he said prior there was. And, again I get it; my bad. Ass You Me.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
Huh? Some people do express intimacy in these ways, and/or using them are conditional upon trust/intimacy.
I could never do (and have never done) toys with someone I didn't trust implicitly.
And some people use them or break them out with strangers. That's fine too.
The point is, these aren't universal truths. And sex (generally) isn't going to be an intimidate expression between two people without and intimate connection of the heart and/or mind.
People can make anything conditional on anything they want in their own relationships, they do not get to proclaim their way of being is a universal truth for everyone else.
Quote:
Originally Posted by msgirlnyc
Wait now it is with the heart and mind? I thought it was with WORDS? If intimacy is in the heart and mind (it is) then so is fidelity. And fidelity is not "I won't do what I really want to if you agree to not do what your really want to". Which bring us full-circle to the only issue I ever really had with this; that AFTER the 'intimate' things from the keys on down, he did the very same things the next day. "Agreement" or not. Thus there was no intimacy in his heart or mind. I assumed based on how I view things AND the things he said prior there was. And, again I get it; my bad. Ass You Me.
Nope, intimacy can be expressed through words. Feelings are often expressed through words (it also can be expressed physically, but that is not intimacy, it is the expression of intimacy). It is an expression of a heart and mind.
Fidelity is sticking to an agreement of exclusivity, it is, by definition, being faithful to an agreement. Agreements need to be made with words.
If nothing else, we are seeing the range of perspectives here. I don't have a problem with anyone believing that any particular act, or activity, is part of what they consider to be "intimacy." I mean heck, for ME, telling someone one of my fantasies, is hugely intimate. It makes me feel vulnerable. To some, that is SO not a big deal, they'll write 'em up and post 'em on the internet. Same with sex, with toys, with anything!
This just highlights the need to communicate with partners, so you know what things mean to them.
And I still think that whether he slept with another woman, or is lying about it, it's a ploy to incite jealousy and be able to say, "Well, if you want me not to do that, you've got to give me the relationship status I want from you." I think it's manipulative. At least that's what my instincts tell me.
Huh? Some people do express intimacy in these ways, and/or using them are conditional upon trust/intimacy.
I could never do (and have never done) toys with someone I didn't trust implicitly.
Did she express those conditions, though?
The OP had neither trust nor an agreement. She basically made countermoves based on her assumptions about his moves. This is the gray area that is troublesome.
And some people use them or break them out with strangers. That's fine too.
Yeah. And in the OP's case, immediately on the heels of them, the boyfriend said some obvious intimacy things, like moving her things into his place, so...
Quote:
Originally Posted by timberline742
The point is, these aren't universal truths.
Um, yeah. See my first response above.
In THIS case there was an obvious strong hint toward continued intimacy, though it seems to have been done in a childish way (hinting, asking to move things in) and then followed up childishly ("hurry up, since you haven't officially committed I'm doing other women").
If nothing else, we are seeing the range of perspectives here. I don't have a problem with anyone believing that any particular act, or activity, is part of what they consider to be "intimacy." I mean heck, for ME, telling someone one of my fantasies, is hugely intimate. It makes me feel vulnerable. To some, that is SO not a big deal, they'll write 'em up and post 'em on the internet. Same with sex, with toys, with anything!
This just highlights the need to communicate with partners, so you know what things mean to them.
And I still think that whether he slept with another woman, or is lying about it, it's a ploy to incite jealousy and be able to say, "Well, if you want me not to do that, you've got to give me the relationship status I want from you." I think it's manipulative. At least that's what my instincts tell me.
I mean... you came here and started this convo with "us people."
You are of course perfectly welcome to have this ^^^ viewpoint, but you will continue to have trouble establishing a relationship without the ability to trust.
True, I retract the "you people" it was undeserved, my apologies to all.
Again however, I do not have an inability to trust, if anything I have too much ability to trust. I was not "suspicious" of him.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,957,550 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JerZ
Um, yeah. See my first response above.
In THIS case there was an obvious strong hint toward continued intimacy, though it seems to have been done in a childish way (hinting, asking to move things in) and then followed up childishly ("hurry up, since you haven't officially committed I'm doing other women").
Its a hint sure. And of course, people can be intimate with multiple people too. Intimacy and monogamy, and toys and their uses, for that matter, are all separate things for many people.
Location: RI, MA, VT, WI, IL, CA, IN (that one sucked), KY
41,936 posts, read 36,957,550 times
Reputation: 40635
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork
If nothing else, we are seeing the range of perspectives here. I don't have a problem with anyone believing that any particular act, or activity, is part of what they consider to be "intimacy." I mean heck, for ME, telling someone one of my fantasies, is hugely intimate. It makes me feel vulnerable. To some, that is SO not a big deal, they'll write 'em up and post 'em on the internet. Same with sex, with toys, with anything!
This just highlights the need to communicate with partners, so you know what things mean to them.
And I still think that whether he slept with another woman, or is lying about it, it's a ploy to incite jealousy and be able to say, "Well, if you want me not to do that, you've got to give me the relationship status I want from you." I think it's manipulative. At least that's what my instincts tell me.
Exactly. For one of my friends, sex is not an intimate act for her. Sleeping next to someone is a very intimate act. People need to speak about these things and not project how they operate on others to learn and be on the same page.
And some people use them or break them out with strangers. That's fine too.
t that is not intimacy, it is the expression of intimacy). It is an expression of a heart and mind.
Fidelity is sticking to an agreement of exclusivity, it is, by definition, being faithful to an agreement. Agreements need to be made with words.
Two completely different things.
This is where I differ on all this; if you are agreeing to give up being with other people so that the other person will give up being with other people too, neither of you should be giving up being with other people. When you choose to be with one person and they choose to be with you that is a very different thing (though it may seem it is not it is). It isn't about rejecting other things it is about embracing something without regard to those things. So, again, if someone has to be asked/told to not do something, in this girl's view you might as well not ask. Takeaway for me is I have to ask a guy with the keys/drawers/overnight/toys to not do the same thing with anyone else, I'm with the wrong guy.
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See my first response above.
