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Gays who are not married but have children out of wedlock, through adoption or fostering, yet may be educated and/or from a higher socio economic status.
Women who no longer want to wait for "the husband" but have children on their own, with higher education levels or incomes.
My point is that not everyone is the stereotype that some on here may speak of. There are exceptions to everything, why must people on here perpetuate further the stereotypes.
You know, statistically speaking, more black men are in prison than white men. So based on these studies, what should we say about them? Of course, there are exceptions but "statistically speaking?" Or how about another race/sex/socioeconomic class?
I wish people would stop basing their opinions so heavily on someone else's data and stereotypes and open their eyes more and see the world is changing every day.
This is true with regards to having children (i.e. the more educated you are the more likely you are to have children in marriage). We know, too, that education level and income level are very highly correlated. Unmarried households with children tend to have lower incomes, and out of wedlock births are increasingly the norm among lower income people. This, of course, contributes to a generational cycle of poverty since these kids are very likely to grow up with significant financial disadvantages.
Yes and no. Do you know the difference between a phd or researcher and and md? A zero in their income.
I know of 2 men, who were raised by single mothers, one earns 7 figures annually, the other earns 8 figures annually.
But, yes, often times, a child raised by 2 parents in an unhappy or unhealthy relationship, may be much worse off than being raised by one parent who is responsible and educated. And in today's world with today's divorces and poverty levels, the first scenario is becoming more common.
Do you know the difference between a PhD and an MD? A zero in their income.
Yes, I know the difference all too well. I am a PhD, my wife is an MD
Quote:
Originally Posted by faina00
I know of 2 men, who were raised by single mothers, one earns 7 figures annually, the other earns 8 figures annually.
Anecdotes are not empirical data.
Quote:
Originally Posted by faina00
often times, a child raised by 2 parents in an unhappy or unhealthy relationship, may be much worse off than being raised by one parent who is responsible and educated. And in today's world with today's divorces and poverty levels, the first scenario is becoming more common.
I have never seen data to back this up. Divorce rates have declined somewhat in recent years as marriage is increasingly becoming a phenomena of the middle and upper classes (which reinforces the socio-economic trends disadvantageous to out of wedlock children that I noted previously)
Gays who are not married but have children out of wedlock, through adoption or fostering, yet may be educated and/or from a higher socio economic status.
Indeed, gays/lesbians are a notable exception to the trend. They tend to have higher than average education and income levels, and gay/lesbian couples who have children tend to be involved in very stable, long-term relationships. And, of course, laws discriminate against such couples by prohibiting them from marrying (except in MA, though the U.S refuses to recognize such marriages)
Quote:
Originally Posted by faina00
There are exceptions to everything, why must people on here perpetuate further the stereotypes
There are indeed exceptions to every rule, but it is not unreasonable to make judgments about human behavior based upon empirical data. And the data indicate that children born out of wedlock are more likely to end up on the bad end of the scale on a number of socio-economic indicators.
Such facts may not be comfortable for those who like to take a nonjudgmental perspective. But ignoring facts does not make them go away.
I sometimes think that when someone takes this down a tangential route it's because there is a snippet they will focus on because they feel personally slighted. Let's not derail a thread....it's about whether out of wedlock is ok and I gave it the "thumbs down."
Redirecting traffic.....
Was someone around here talking about being tangential? (glancing around)
Bolded portion above: It didn't take a detective to figure that part out, Robert. I stated in the next post that it was indeed personal for me. Yes...of course a few people might feel personally...well, you misused "slighted" here, unless you meant it that way, but I assume you meant "insulted" instead. Regardless, yes, I'm sure a person or two was going to feel (insulted? attacked? pidgeonholed?) and I'm equally sure that when you started your "let's condemn most, if not every, quality of single mothers" posting campaign, you knew this.
I'm wondering whether you can make any other generalizations about single mothers? Their children are dirty, they look like they just stepped out of a Jerry Springer episode, they let their children inappropriately climb over other people, they are "unkempt"--any other scientifically backed data you'd like to share on single mothers? I think we'd all like to know, so that we can spot them immediately, as you claim you can, on sight (kind of like spotting commies).
Oh, by the way, since we're sharing information on how to scope out unsavory types, I'd like to share how to spot a poser who is secretly insecure about how bright, or not, others might view him as being: Generally, such a person makes sweeping statements in semi-formal language (for perceived validity) pidgeonholing "other" types (hence separating himself from them...he hopes...for his own reasons; in this case, Robert, I have to assume it's because of your extreme embarrassment at having this sort within your own family, and although I can't relate, I guess I can't blame you, though it bears noting that perhaps your generalizations are in this case more about your own family and less about single mothers in general.). But rarely does he or she cite actual studies or any clear backup. Rather, he or she hopes to "sway" his or her very temporary audience by quickly moving on to another "fact". It's a sign of deep insecurity, unbased-fact-dropping and the "me v. them" mentality, but it's very, very common and luckily for most posers, very easy to achieve for the average person. As I said, it's typically based on insecurity in one's own life, abilities and/or education coupled with the deep need to make others believe he or she is superior in some way to another group or groups. Keep your eyes open...they're everywhere...kind of like white trash crack mothers.
You will generally only see this person pulling this trick on the internet, where there is enough of a time lag to Google "facts" from whatever source she or he can drum up, rather than in public, where the person could be caught red-handed without facts and without Ask.com.
See? Told you it was easy.........
Last edited by JerZ; 04-06-2008 at 12:59 PM..
Reason: Edited to snip the quoted text.
Was someone around here talking about being tangential? (glancing around)
Bolded portion above: It didn't take a detective to figure that part out, Robert. I stated in the next post that it was indeed personal for me. Yes...of course a few people might feel personally...well, you misused "slighted" here, unless you meant it that way, but I assume you meant "insulted" instead. Regardless, yes, I'm sure a person or two was going to feel (insulted? attacked? pidgeonholed?) and I'm equally sure that when you started your "let's condemn most, if not every, quality of single mothers" posting campaign, you knew this.
I'm wondering whether you can make any other generalizations about single mothers? Their children are dirty, they look like they just stepped out of a Jerry Springer episode, they let their children inappropriately climb over other people, they are "unkempt"--any other scientifically backed data you'd like to share on single mothers? I think we'd all like to know, so that we can spot them immediately, as you claim you can, on sight (kind of like spotting commies).
Oh, by the way, since we're sharing information on how to scope out unsavory types, I'd like to share how to spot a poser who is secretly insecure about how bright, or not, others might view him as being: Generally, such a person makes sweeping statements in semi-formal language (for perceived validity) pidgeonholing "other" types (hence separating himself from them...he hopes...for his own reasons; in this case, Robert, I have to assume it's because of your extreme embarrassment at having this sort within your own family, and although I can't relate, I guess I can't blame you, though it bears noting that perhaps your generalizations are in this case more about your own family and less about single mothers in general.). But rarely does he or she cite actual studies or any clear backup. Rather, he or she hopes to "sway" his or her very temporary audience by quickly moving on to another "fact". It's a sign of deep insecurity, unbased-fact-dropping and the "me v. them" mentality, but it's very, very common and luckily for most posers, very easy to achieve for the average person. As I said, it's typically based on insecurity in one's own life, abilities and/or education coupled with the deep need to make others believe he or she is superior in some way to another group or groups. Keep your eyes open...they're everywhere...kind of like white trash crack mothers.
You will generally only see this person pulling this trick on the internet, where there is enough of a time lag to Google "facts" from whatever source she or he can drum up, rather than in public, where the person could be caught red-handed without facts and without Ask.com.
See? Told you it was easy.........
Let's just say it's great being on the offense and not the defense, like you.
As for insecurity about my education and abilities, that's humorous. I've got a Bachelor of Science with honors from a private university in your own back yard + a double masters (one in a technical field and the other in business), each from a school rated in US News Top 50 National Universities. My professional work has allowed me to use both types of education. Does that make me better than anyone else? No. Does it put me in a situation where "water seeks its own level?" Absolutely. And that most likely would exclude someone such as yourself, from what I can read between the lines. Oh, yes, let's talk about my parents. They came from another country and neither of them completed high school. However, they are/were extremely dignified and conservative people who taught me good values and to develop a keen sense so as to spot and avoid people and situations that would "bring me down."
Did you read about my encounter at the "moving party" or did selective perception get the best of you? It is irritating when someone (including a person's mother, in this case) doesn't understand when someone is clearly out of their league. (I don't court the friendship of my college friends who went into medicine or are partners in slick law firms because they make 2x + what I make. I'm realistic and realize they now belong to another "fraternity.") Wouldn't that have been great? A professional salvaging the epitome of an irresponsible low-life chick...good, real good....and just because you happened to show up to a get-together to help someone move. Amazing. If anything, that family has a problem with boundaries and respect. In this case, the baby daughter is peripheral but her behavior and general prognosis are still a function of her skanky Mom's poor choices in life.
You know what? The "water seeks its own level" motto means one might have less friends and less dates, but I have been satisfied with how things have turned out. It has been the right approach for me and all I can say is "thanks Mom and Dad." And if it means not thinking highly of most, though not all, out-of-wedlock situations and this coincidentally has the effect of making you feel marginalized in the process, then so be it.
Last edited by robertpolyglot; 04-06-2008 at 07:11 PM..
Let's just say it's great being on the offense and not the defense, like you.
As for insecurity about my education and abilities, that's humorous. I've got a Bachelor of Science with honors from a private university in your own back yard + a double masters (one in a technical field and the other in business), each from a school rated in US News Top 50 National Universities. My professional work has allowed me to use both types of education. Does that make me better than anyone else? No. Does it put me in a situation where "water seeks its own level?" Absolutely. And that most likely would exclude someone such as yourself, from what I can read between the lines. Oh, yes, let's talk about my parents. They came from another country and neither of them completed high school. However, they are/were extremely dignified and conservative people who taught me good values and to develop a keen sense so as to spot and avoid people and situations that would "bring me down."
Did you read about my encounter at the "moving party" or did selective perception get the best of you? It is irritating when someone (including a person's mother, in this case) doesn't understand when someone is clearly out of their league. (I don't court the friendship of my college friends who went into medicine or are partners in slick law firms because they make 2x + what I make. I'm realistic and realize they now belong to another "fraternity.") Wouldn't that have been great? A professional salvaging the epitome of an irresponsible low-life chick...good, real good....and just because you happened to show up to a get-together to help someone move. Amazing. If anything, that family has a problem with boundaries and respect. In this case, the baby daughter is peripheral but her behavior and general prognosis are still a function of her skanky Mom's poor choices in life.
You know what? The "water seeks its own level" motto means one might have less friends and less dates, but I have been satisfied with how things have turned out. It has been the right approach for me and all I can say is "thanks Mom and Dad." And if it means not thinking highly of most, though not all, out-of-wedlock situations and this coincidentally has the effect of making you feel marginalized in the process, then so be it.
Oh, my God! I'm sorry, I just had to shake myself awake from the midst of that self-stroking ramble. Although the submission of an (unverifiable) resume was pretty predictable.
I obviously hit a sore spot. Sorry about that. I notice that all throughout that masturbatory rant, you *still* haven't mentioned a single source to support your "majority" assertions on single motherhood. The only backup I've seen so far is your observation of your own friends/family-by-association being partially comprised of said white trash. I don't consider that majority. (I do, however, see how and why it has played into your continuing attempts to bolster yourself and your own credentials by comparison. You may want to be aware that an at least reasonably self-secure person wouldn't feel the need to bring it up in the first place, and wouldn't dream that anyone would associate him or herself with "trash" anyway. I'm also a little curious as to how you reconcile your assertions that you, posing as water for the sake of metaphor, seek your own level...yet you hang out on a public message board with all The Great Unwashed. I mean...huh?)
I'll await studies, or something less self-absorbed, and until then...this, poor Robert, pretty much does say it all for you:
I don't court the friendship of my college friends who went into medicine or are partners in slick law firms because they make 2x + what I make. (Your quote.)
I don't know which is sadder--the people you attempt to keep at a distance because you're better than they are, or the people you back away from because they're better than you--and all based on some economic formula. I mean please. Re-read what you wrote there. Now again.
All I can say is...poor, poor man.
Last edited by JerZ; 04-06-2008 at 07:36 PM..
Reason: Didn't italicize the entire sentence.
Assuming this post isn't a joke.
Any women who would consider having a child without the support of a husband who is legally bound to be financially, and emotionally responsible for the co parenting of the child is an idiot.
I'll make an exception if you are 40 years old and financially independent, but even then I'd rather see you adopt a child who needs a home.
Oh my. All of the "attacks" and people feeling "slighted" around here about this. What a SHAME.
The way I see it, people are WAY too interested in being "normal". Whatever *that* means, at that particular time and place.
And, frankly, "studies" about this? Come on now. It's apparent by the responses on this thread that any studies have an exception. (And probably way more than one.)
These pissing contests get old. "I'm this, you're that", or "I know someone who's ...". At the end of the day, what does that mean in the grand scheme of things? Precisely nada.
What is "normal", or "right", or "good" when it comes to this?
What's "wrong with having a child out of wedlock?" It's disadvantageous, legally speaking. It also may be a disadvantage to the child, if his/her peers poke fun because of their status.
But, honestly, after seeing what I have seen with the married couples that I've known, I'd much rather have been a child out of wedlock than have dealt with their crap on a daily basis through my formative years.
And, as far as income goes? I have yet to see any concrete proof that ability as a parent is directly proportional to income.
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