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Uh, yeah ... like you men never go for the hot blonde with the big boobs ... Grow up already!
Oh come on now Twinkle Toes, you're making an unfair assumption here because a lot of us men actually do put the inner quality of a woman before anything else.
And yes, I would never go for a "hot blonde with the big boobs", that doesn't mean anything to me.
I didn't read your entire post "denny" but I get the jist of it and agree. It give gals like me that are looking for a nice guy a bad name, because they assume we want jerks!! but I don't! I'm all about the nice guy!
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane
OK, I haven't read through this whole thread, but I had to respond to this because I think I'm one of those "nice" guys you described. I used to think like you, that nice guys finish last and to get women, you have to be a jerk. Well, grow up. Quit worrying about being what women want or modeling yourself after the person who does get women. Here's a novel idea. Just be you. If women don't like you for you, don't waste your time on them. Don't even waste energy trying to understand why they don't like you. Just move on to someone who does value you. But whatever you do, don't let yourself turn into a bitter cynic. You can still be a nice guy. Just don't let yourself become a doormat. The problem with nice guys is we let ourselves turn into a safety net for women. They take us for granted cause they know we'll always be there in the background. So go on being the nice guy you are. Just demand better treatment and don't be afraid to stand up for yourself more.
The same can be said for men. It has been admitted by some men on this board that men go for attractive very feminine women with big boobs.-superficial looks.
And I see a lot of men going for the shallow, self-centered b tchy user type women.
A person can fool you. Many of these women with butt heads actually married a nice guy that morphed into a pig. I did. As many men that married a sweet soft spoken girl woke up one day with a nagging hateful b.
Its true, if you go to bed with Bridezilla you won't be disappointed with the one calling your golf buddies to say you won't be there because your putters in the shop.
But look at the record..........How many women do you hear about, know about, read about who suffer from neglectful, cheating, abusive, nasty, violent, criminal, substance abusing etc husbands while us true Mr.nice guys get USED as boyFRIENDS for free meals or even worse for sounding boards for women to complain about and even ask for advice about their abusive (wish they were) boyfriends?
Could be that those are just the ones you hear about. Normal, nice people in normal, nice relationships don't make headlines.
First and foremost, I very much value kindness, thoughtfulness, and high morals in a man, and I am a young twenty-something woman. I consider those traits of a nice man....the so-called "nice guy" who is whiny, bitter, clingy, boring, insecure, and a thinly veiled misogynist is not attractive, nor is he truly "nice".
Second, I also like men who are interesting and share common interests. Good social skills go a long way (and I admit mine are shaky, so someone who is a good conversationalist and can draw me out is very appealing). So if a man is nice, interesting, exciting, and interacts well socially, he probably won't do too bad with women who are worth his time. If he puts some thought & care into his appearance, he will do very well (humans are visual creatures after all).
Most people consider me physically attractive and I strive to date very considerate and law-abiding guys. These guys often don't have much money (but are not bums; they support themselves) and are not strikingly handsome (ranging from downright nerdy to mildly good-looking). They are, however, usually very well read, maybe have an artistic talent, have great taste in music and art, present themselves well, and engage me in interesting conversation.
Maybe I am not the typical woman, but do you want typical or someone special who appreciates you? :P
Two things women never admit is that they 1- go for superficial "qualities" (looks or height or "macho" or "rugged" appearance etc) in choosing a mate and 2- women love to have an abusive or nasty mate
But look at the record..........How many women do you hear about, know about, read about who suffer from neglectful, cheating, abusive, nasty, violent, criminal, substance abusing etc husbands while us true Mr.nice guys get USED as boyFRIENDS for free meals or even worse for sounding boards for women to complain about and even ask for advice about their abusive (wish they were) boyfriends?
What is it? 90%, 95%, 100% of all married men or men successful with women are no good undeserving abusers?
I'm sick of it!
Is it time for me to become a slob so that I too can get a woman romantically interested in me as a man?
What do you think. Let's get some feedback in here.
Now I can't become violent and I can't become a drug user or drinker and I won't cheat or quit my job or become a criminal.
But what I can do is become a cynical (or more of a cynical) stubborn and opinionated patriarch instead of the easy going, even tempered nice guy that I am...................................but is it worth ruining the beauty, the equality, the LONG AWAITED sharing of love, contentment, peace.........once my nastiness finds me the wife which my niceness is denying me?
Boy, do I get you Riv!!! And, unfortunately if you don't watch out you will indeed become a cynic. It happens to the best of us, especially after heart break upon heartbreak. Life has a way of making softies, hard. I sure hope you will combat this. Go with your instincts and first impressions, too! Usually that helps steer clear of the ones who will do damage. Good luck!
Oh come on now Twinkle Toes, you're making an unfair assumption here because a lot of us men actually do put the inner quality of a woman before anything else.
And yes, I would never go for a "hot blonde with the big boobs", that doesn't mean anything to me.
Um, okay ... how 'bout a hot black haired ballroom diva with big boobs???
Enough already. I bet you can't change yourself into "not so nice guy", those who whine alot usually can't do it. Life is life, if you could make it, enjoy it; if you couldn't, change yourself in whatever way necessary to make it, then enjoy it; if you still could not make it, deal with it. Just don't complain.
I haven't read this whole thread (who has the time,) but here's the deal:
People, not just women, want to be treated as they believe they deserve to be treated. A hot, young girl in a club, dancing the night away, trying to get personal validation, knows that she doesn't deserve to have a man fawn all over her.
If she's good looking, it's because she's young and has been blessed with good genes. Unless she has real accomplishments that set her apart from every other girl just like her, she knows she doesn't deserve the royal treatment.
Er go, when some guy comes along and does just that, he's telling her that he's beneath her on the social ladder. She learns about him by the way he treats her; if it's preferential, she rationally reasons that he must be beneath her. Ipso Facto, if he looks down on her, she buys into the myth that she's beneath him.
Faced with the latter observation, she has a choice: She can either a) scramble for his approval to up her own sense of self-esteem. This, she will only do if the perceived distance is something she believes she can socially traverse.
Or b) she'll freeze him out and seek solace in the arms of someone else. In this case, the man has over-qualified for her, and this makes her angry. In fact, the anger factor is one of the only ways to tell this choice from typical, outright "you don't qualify for me" rejection. It's the difference between "As if!" and "What a jerk!"
That latter, all other things being equal, will get you laid, the former is a death sentence. That's why all guys schooled in seduction know the adage, "Hate me, but never forget me."
The bottom line is, that you tell a woman your value by how you treat her. If she's healthy and has good self-esteem, you can be straight with her. However, most people in this day and age are not healthy, so this rarely works, unfortunately.
Another aspect that needs to be considered is why do you feel the need to be nice, treat women well, etc.? It sounds like a strange question, but think about it. Most people's default persona is neutral, not preferential. Are you treating women better than you would your own friends, co-workers, family, even yourself?
If so, you may have a secondary gain, or unseen motive. It's this that makes women fearful and want to bolt. If they think you're not who you appear to be and that you want something from them in exchange for buying dinner, holding the door, supplication strategies, etc. They will leave, rather than wait to find out what it is.
The guy who is who he is, and makes no apology for it, nor does he attempt to get in a woman's good graces, does not raise a woman's defense mechanisms. To outsiders, he seems like a jerk, because he's totally unencumbered by the female need to socially restrain the male drives.
Naturally, none of the above relates to abusive behavior--as that is criminal, not to be condoned, behavior.
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Grow up already! 
