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About once every two weeks, a few of us guys go out to have drinks at a pub; it used to be every week, but we all got married, all have wives and children now.
Last night I noticed something, and I alerted my buddies, and they all were cognizant as well, but never spent time to reflect on it...
I would say neither of us guys lacked confidence when approaching women in our single days, and we did many, and we had fun. But many times our efforts were rebuffed, or conversations would not sustain, or there were awkward moments of silence, on both parts.
Fast forward several years, we are all happily married, we all have children, and we still have our 'man' time, not as often, or long, or late even, but still manage to cling to that. But the difference I notice now is that communication is effortless with women at the pub; conversations last way too long sometimes, and we strike conversations with complete strangers and sometimes have to ease out because we sense the women might be getting the wrong message. Imagine that!
So what is it? Is it that men no longer have to "play" the game, and so that somehow is reflected in our attitudes? Have our wives taught us to converse about meaningful topics? We are happily married, so now we have no expectations, or inhibitions when talking to women (strangers)?
For the record, there is no hidden agenda; we go out and talk crap, rant, discuss politics, and watch games. We always wear our wedding bands, and never hit on women, just every day conversations. We also converse with other guys, but this was only about relating to women.
I think you answered your own question. Maybe you emit a sort of confidence that doesn't exist in the world of singledom. Plus women can sniff hidden agendas and desperateness a mile away. Take these out of the equation and you're left with a woman a bit intrigued and at ease.
That's an interesting thought, Hook. I've never considered this. But, now that you bring it up, I'm thinking the "no longer have to play the game" line you wrote may be correct. I'll take it to a slightly different angle; instead of the local pub, my experience has been at work. I've worked for 3 different companies since I married, and at all three, my best friends at work have been women. Where I'm now employed, a woman (about my age) and I have become very close (platonically). I call her my 'Work Spouse". We know everything about each other, and there is no taboo subject between us. As an added bonus, we flirt like teenagers. Since we both know the other would never make a serious "indecent proposal" we have fun with it. And yes, my wife knows all about this and doesn't mind. She knows & trusts me enough to know I'd never cheat on her.
So, I think the truth is somewhere in this from your post: "Is it that men no longer have to "play" the game, and so that somehow is reflected in our attitudes? Have our wives taught us to converse about meaningful topics? We are happily married, so now we have no expectations, or inhibitions when talking to women (strangers)?"
Yeah since the goal isn't to hit that, you are more open and giving as far as information and conversation. When your only intention is to score, you only give what is necessary to get what you want. For most guys, that doesn't involve a deep conversation, unless that's part of your appeal.
I'm only 26 and never been married, but the obvious answer is yes. I mean even when I have a g/f at the time it is easier to talk to other girls, even more so when you are happily taken. Now here is the thing.......women sense that, and some even try to screw that up on purpose. Imagine that........but that's another topic.
Since you guys are no longer on the prowl, you're not as desperate to make a good impression on some chick in a bar. It probably makes a difference. I know when I am in certain situations where my attitude is kind of like I don't really give a crap, people seem to flock to me. I guess people sense desperation and maybe you don't have that desperate edge anymore.
Since you guys are no longer on the prowl, you're not as desperate to make a good impression on some chick in a bar. It probably makes a difference. I know when I am in certain situations where my attitude is kind of like I don't really give a crap, people seem to flock to me. I guess people sense desperation and maybe you don't have that desperate edge anymore.
Since you guys are no longer on the prowl, you're not as desperate to make a good impression on some chick in a bar. It probably makes a difference. I know when I am in certain situations where my attitude is kind of like I don't really give a crap, people seem to flock to me. I guess people sense desperation and maybe you don't have that desperate edge anymore.
I don't think its desperation. Its a nervousness that comes from being shot down so many times, starting in school. A small percentage of men have the moves down but for the rest, this is a highly stressful situation where they have experienced low success and often embarrassment.
This is unfortunate since for many, this contrasts with who they really are: otherwise decent, successful preople, in stark contrast to so many of the those with the moves. But then, this is a big part of the reason why they are under such pressure in school.
The answer to your question is yes, men do try too hard. I'm sure there are men on this board who are good at those games, but most men are terrible at it. We meet a woman and try to act cool, not make it obvious that we're interested in her. But, of course, she can spot us a mile away. I think if you're having an easier time now, it isn't because you're married or that your wife has taught you anything. It's that you're not trying so you have nothing to lose by just being yourself. Even though I'm an introvert, I have a pretty easy time talking to women, provided I'm not interested in them. Everywhere I've worked, most of my friends have ended up being women, not because I sought them out, but because it was easy to make friends with them by virtue of the fact that I wasn't looking for anything more.
When you're trying to get somewhere with them, then it's like you're putting on an act. You're trying to think of the right thing to say and you're trying to avoid saying certain things even though you're thinking them. But when you're just being yourself and assuming you like yourself, your confidence will come through. I remember one girl I was friends with for years. We could chat like good friends all the time. I could let my guard down and say whatever was on my mind and not worry about she might think. But when I realized I wanted to be more than friends, I started to act differently. All the sudden, I'd be editing myself or trying a little too hard to impress her and feeling more self-conscious of how I looked. That's why I just try to be myself. I seem to have better luck with women when I'm not really trying.
I'm sure there are men on this board who are good at those games
There sure ARE! I'm curious to know whether other men can tell who they are...
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