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Well, given that we're constantly hearing stories about miracle cures that turn out to be equivocal accounts of questionable diagnoses, improbable but not impossible recovery, or ordinary fabrication, and given that theists are always touting these stories as proof of the existence and benevolence of god, a regrown amputated limb would be a lot harder to fake and a lot easier to confirm, wouldn't you think?
This may be on the way........but even if /when scientists figure out how to grow a whole new part, thesists will just say god gave them the ability to figure it out.
There is no way to 'win' the argument of is there or isn't there since theists can always revert to 'god did it' or 'god allowed it to happen'...no further explaination needed.
Well, given that we're constantly hearing stories about miracle cures that turn out to be equivocal accounts of questionable diagnoses, improbable but not impossible recovery, or ordinary fabrication, and given that theists are always touting these stories as proof of the existence and benevolence of god, a regrown amputated limb would be a lot harder to fake and a lot easier to confirm, wouldn't you think?
I suppose, but I am sure some atheists would come up with an explanation other than God.
Having been healed of a back injury is good enough for me.
To make a long story short I injured my back about 10 years ago and was a semi-cripple for three months. Nothing helped. Had physical therapy, Chirop. etc. One evening after a Bible study I sensed the Lord saying to me that the next morning my back would be healed. The next morning my back was 100%. Full range of motion.
Feel free to accept whatever alternate explaination you can think of.
I did answer your thoughts on this in another thread this afternoon, sukrill. In fact, when carefully analyzed, no such miracles happen with any more frequency than they do for atheists. Praying Christians or supplicating Muslims get positive answers no more often than atheists (i.e.: both happen with the same frequency). Good luck befalls atheists just as often, proving it's all just chance, but as regards divorce or medical salvation, the religious are at a documented disadvantage, as opposed to what you suggest. Reason: they waste time praying or leaving it to faith, while the atheists get on with finding possible ways to just get the job done.
that didnt answer my question at all. i know that miracles happen to all of mankind. however i dont believe in chance, i believe everything happens in Allah's will. even if thats a miracle happening to an atheist. but you didnt answer the question as to how you, as an atheist, explain miracles.
It is called, medicine and luck
it is called adrenaline and energy
medicine and luck? what medicine and what luck.
adrenaline.... how do you even explain adrenaline, anyone can say that. but where does the energy for a woman to lift up a car come from. thats what i want to know. your just putting a label on it but your not explaining it.
If that average woman's child who was trapped underneath that car had her leg amputated because of that accident, do you think god would grow the child's leg back if the mother prayed hard enough?
because its not in Allah's will. but that doesnt answer my question either...
I am curious. What does it really mean if God doesn't restore her leg? Does it mean God does not exist? If so please tell me why. Maybe you can deconvert me.
it just means that it was not in Allah's will. Allah can do anything. but this question is like asking why didn't god make us any of his creations that can regrow their limbs, or why does Allah allow natural disasters to happen, why does he allow people to die, its all in Allah's will. there's a reason for everything happening. there's a reason why Allah does not heal amputees. just because we don't know the reason as to WHY Allah does not heal amputees, does not mean Allah does not exist...
Agreed. It's obviously hard to get to a specific unemotional perspective here, but I applaud us all for at least trying. After all, think of the masses out there, who do not even give this stuff the briefest consideration, ever!
My point though TR, is to ask why I/we cannot ever seem to make ANY headway in these discussions. I'm coming to some unfortunately dire conclusions about this possibility in man's philosophical future, based on what I have seen here on C-D for 1.5 yrs and thousands of posts. It all seems sorta, well... doomed!
I agree that one cannot compare deep personal convictions with cold, hard microscope science, but folks did come to those deep personal convictions precisely because of the cold hard "facts" presented to them in, perhaps, Sunday School, or from watching Mr. Hinn on Sunday TV, or from watching NOVA, or Nature, or the Science Channel, or God forbid, reading a book.
So some new cold hard facts should have at least somepotential influence on one's belief system, right?
In other words, a person's later-life mindset should, again in principle, still be open to possible revision or fine-tuning if presented with new, irrefutable evidence, right?
Or, is the potential threat to their peaceful philosophical existence thatpalpable that it must be denied out of hand? With all the Big Questions assumed to have been answered, are those possibly wrong answers that convincing, vivid and stable that their "owners" are thus incapable of any "software updates"? In this way, are they less adaptable than my Mac? Oh. No!
You make some good points, maybe I was unfair in not being impressed by you.
I do think many people are able to fine-tune or evolve their beliefs with new information. I've done this a fair amount. I don't think I believed in evolution as a kid, but I do now. I read enough it seemed pretty solid and I read of people who believed as I do yet accept evolution. I've adapted on some other issues as well.
Mentioning that might show a seed of the problem. People who are not religious, or are even hostile to religion, might "turn off" Creationists from even listening. That might be unfair, but it is somewhat understandable that people may "turn off" if they see an attack on Creationism as being part of an effort at conversion. If a staunch Christian here attacked say string theory, even if they did not attach this attack to religion in anyway, I imagine at least some secularists here might be thinking it's part of a goal to get people to become Christian. Even if you don't personally find string theory valid, I don't know your views on it, that thought might enter your mind. So from their perspective evolution is just a "back-door" to get them to abandon religion, even if that's not your intent at all.
Although considering pro-evolution Christians here have not had much effect maybe not. Although possibly they see us as wanting them to become Catholic or Liberal Protestant, which they might see as almost worse than even atheist.
it just means that it was not in Allah's will. Allah can do anything. but this question is like asking why didn't god make us any of his creations that can regrow their limbs, or why does Allah allow natural disasters to happen, why does he allow people to die, its all in Allah's will. there's a reason for everything happening. there's a reason why Allah does not heal amputees. just because we don't know the reason as to WHY Allah does not heal amputees, does not mean Allah does not exist...
Exactly. Something the atheist will never (want to) understand.
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