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Ok, here's a basic stab at an argument for why we cannot be free if God is omniscient (I'm taking this from Cheguevara):
(1) IF the God is omniscient, THEN we cannot choose to do something that god doesn't know we will choose to do.
(2) God is omniscient.
(3) Hence, we cannot choose to do something that god doesn't know we will choose to do.
What does everyone think about this argument? As it stands, more clarification is needed to show that a free choice CANNOT be known beforehand. That is, it needs to be demonstrated that the freedom of an action, and knowledge of that action, are incompatible, so that ANY action foreknown is (by definition) one that cannot be free. But I don't see how this can be demonstrated.
If a god knows the future with infallible certainty, then what this god knows will happen - there is no possibility for anything else to occur.
At the end of the corridor are two identical doors. Does god know which door you will take? If he does, is it at all possible for you to take the other door? You have no choice in the matter, you have no free will.
If a god knows the future with infallible certainty, then what this god knows will happen - there is no possibility for anything else to occur.
At the end of the corridor are two identical doors. Does god know which door you will take? If he does, is it at all possible for you to take the other door? You have no choice in the matter, you have no free will.
No, you have the choice of choosing the other door, it's just that it's already known what door you will choose anyway. Regardless, your actions are already known.
No, you have the choice of choosing the other door, it's just that it's already known what door you will choose anyway. Regardless, your actions are already known.
If the actions are already known to the omniscient being...can we change them?
This was taken from another thread and deleted because it was OT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheguevara
If the Christian god is omniscient then free-will is an illusion in that no choices other than the ones that are known to the said god are available to you.
So following this line of reasoning, if I overheard you and others planning to do a good deed for someone, and so knew about it beforehand, I would take full credit for the good deed once it happened and would say that since I knew about it you had no choice but to do it... (I'm talking from a human standpoint.)
This was taken from another thread and deleted because it was OT.
So following this line of reasoning, if I overheard you and others planning to do a good deed for someone, and so knew about it beforehand, I would take full credit for the good deed once it happened and would say that since I knew about it you had no choice but to do it... (I'm talking from a human standpoint.)
No, because from a human standpoint you are not omniscient! Hearing us plan something does not mean that the plan has to be carried out. Omniscience is the key word here. Hearing of our plan would not make you omniscient and we could change that plan and prove you wrong. Such can't be done with the omniscient deity because it knows that the plan will be carried out and it can't be shown to be wrong.
Who says that God knows the future with infallibility? Do we have proof of that? Or perhaps God has a plan for humanity but whether that plan gets fullfilled and when depends on how willing we are to work with God. I am sure God could do what he wanted and move us like puppets if He wanted, but then what would be our porpuse here if we were just puppets?
Last edited by hutch5; 11-13-2007 at 08:53 AM..
Reason: Spelling mistake
what if everything is like a multiple choice question...that make free will an illusion..in that we can choose...but the one who makes the question picks which ways you can go
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