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We get this assertion from skeptics and some atheists that just because something is a myth it is naturally not true. We also on the other extreme have fundie types (of which I also include Muslims and certain branches of atheist) that take the Bible or other religious literature literally, and attempt to frame it into historical context. I will say it right now, this is pointless because...
The entirety of the Bible is a myth.
Okay, so it's all false, we can go home now. Right? Wrong! Stick around. Here is myth, according to the dictionary. Since I know people are always looking for the dictionary definition of things like marriage and such.
a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon b : parable, allegory
a : a popular belief or tradition that has grown up around something or someone; especially : one embodying the ideals and institutions of a society or segment of society <seduced by the American myth of individualism — Orde Coombs>
b: an unfounded or false notion
: a person or thing having only an imaginary or unverifiable existence
Note that the definition of myth as something untrue is doesn't come until 2b. 2a by the way refers to a sort of cultural background, not that American individualism is unreal but rather that it is an ingrained idea from one's upbringing. Why is 2b related to 2a? Because 2b refers to cultural ideas that haven't been properly tested, such as stereotypes. Even 3 doesn't strictly mean an outright lie, but rather something outside the realm of facts. As in, I may have seen someone who reminded me of Maleficent, but there wasn't such a person in history books. This doesn't make it "untrue" though, because Maleficent represents an archetype. In some ways, a myth is more true than our facts, as they point to truths that are eternal.
The dictionary works a certain way. Definitions are related to a larger meaning of a word, so because definition #2 of one word and definition #3 of another word are similar, does not mean the words are synonym. It is the word taken as a whole. Second, the words are sorted from most common meaning to least. So, most common to least, taken as a whole we get...
a : a usually traditional story of ostensibly historical events that serves to unfold part of the world view of a people or explain a practice, belief, or natural phenomenon b : parable, allegory
Still #1. The "ostensibly historical events" is the part that has "imaginary or unverifiable existence" as there is no way to pin it to a time frame. And it is a popular thing that has grown up around a society.
A myth is an allegory. Let's look at the fantasy genre, particularly old fables. Let's look at Sleeping Beauty. This seems to be a cut and dry romance story. Guy meets girl, girl gets cursed, girl pricks her finger on a spindle, girl falls asleep, girl gets kissed and wakes up. Okay, maybe not your regular romance story but anyway... but is it? Let me show you something.
The hero enters said castle meets a raven, which sounds alarm, and he is attacked by orcs. Reading one of the Tolkien companion books, it fleshed it what orcs were, and the word root. Without going too far into depth, it has links to the words "hell" or is "demon/monster". This are creatures from the land of the dead, and ravens are servants of death.
The orcs, then try to drop rocks from above, but the fairies turn these into water bubbles. This is a burial symbol, that they are covering him with earth. The fairies represent... well, maybe we should wait on that, but there are three of them. The point is hard stone is converted into soft water, a necessity for plants to grow.
They then fire arrows, which are turned into leaves by the fairies. The arrow is harvested by digging to ore deep into the earth and melting down, tearing off wood for the shaft and the bow, and stripping birds bare for the feathers. That is, these weapons of war are not only symbols of death on their own, but are gathered by forcibly plundering the earth for a source of weapons. To add to this, the point of the bow is vaguely phallic making it a symbol of male aggression. These incredibly firm male symbols are turned into limp female living symbols.
They break the bonds of the horse, and horse and rider ride safely past danger. Today, at church we had a lesson about the Sabbath. Jesus healed a woman on the Sabbath, and he after being condemned, told about how people typically loose their oxen during the Sabbath, and likewise, he decided to free her of her ailment. Now time to talk about what these fairies are. They are the Trinity. God comes to set us free.
One of the fairies, the blue one, sees the raven and turns it to stone. This is kind of a sort of side note thing, until you look at the myth story from its Judeo-Christian background. The meaning of Easter? Christ has defeated death. Now rewatch that scene, this time listening for the music. It kinda swells in triumph around the time this happens, when it would otherwise seem to be a minor scene.
Maleficent comes out and says "Silence! Tell those fools to..." and gasps, seeing her precious raven stoned out of its mind (I had to). She tries to shut the gate and lift the drawbridge but he jumps to safety with the help of their power. If you've been following along I don't have to explain this too much.
With the help of his shield, he blocks some collapsing stones. Once again, burial symbolism, and here we notice that his shield has a cross on it (if we didn't before). She tries to collapse the ground under him, but his horse Samson jumps to safety. Samson was the strong man of the Bible, the metaphor being that God gives strength to lead us to safe ground.
Maleficent then incants "A forest of thorns shall be his time, borne through the skies on a fog of doom! Now go with a curse and serve me well, round Stefan's castle, cast my spell!" Thorns, although living, are the closest thing in living plants in appearance to a dead plant, especially these ones which are jet black. The incantation also depicts being buried with the help of these thorns. Hmmmm...
And indeed, even with the help of Samson, the fairies, and his sword and shield, he has real trouble with this thorns, but manages to prevail.
Maleficent says "Now shall you deal with me Prince, and all the power of Hell" then transforms into a dragon. The Bible refers to two dragons, Leviathan, who was the symbol of the power of God; and Satan, as the dragon of Revelation. The second dragon therefore is a pretender to the throne of God. Rewind back to the thorn incantation. Maleficent used the sky to make vines, pretending control over the heavens to create weather and also over nature to make a pseudo-living thing.
They struggle, his shield fends off the fire, but he is disarmed. It looks like gameover, but the fairies cast a spell to make his sword fly straight and true. Along with the Armageddon final battle symbology, this sword like the sword looks strongly crosslike. It glows, stabs her and remains upright. No more Maleficent.
Phillip kisses the sleeping princess, Rose (or Aurora), and she comes awake, the thorns fall away, and the town awakens. First off, it may not have been obvious thus far, but she was not merely sleeping, she was in a "death-like trance" and he has brought her back. Yep, this is a resurrection story. Second, the entire town comes back because after the Armageddon is the last days. The last days are when the dead are to raise. They dance, and it is implied they will eventually marry. Aurora means the light, and Rose is a symbol of love and nature, even though like the briar, yes it does have thorns. The Church is the Bride of Christ, so Phillip represents the Christ, Aurora is God's love within humanity, or the Church. Death has been defeated, and Christ has married us.
Now, let's look at the Bible, shall we? Everyone open up to Genesis from the very first part, the creation all the way up to casting out of the garden and the first marriage. Then tell me again if it's really relevant that Adam and Eve must be male and female (it's not). Tell me if it's relevant whether Jesus was born in 6 BC, 0 BC, or at all except in terms of his sacrifice for us (again, it's not). What is important was the larger meaning of these stories, not whether they happened in 6000 BC or 35 years ago.
Can someone tell us where "this assertion from skeptics and some atheists that just because something is a myth it is naturally not true" comes from? I see "Sodom is real, so the whole bible is true? Well, New York is real, so Spiderman exists." I know of nobody who claims that Babylon didn't exist.
The term "Myth" is not synonymous with "Allegory". There is also still debate about how to define myth, as evidenced by the several conflicting definitions you listed, Bulma. You did miss one, however: any story containing a god or divine being.
The original term is from Greek mythos, and according to Mark Smith
If you look the word up in a dictionary of classical Greek, you will find the meanings, "word, speech," as in public speech, conversation, a saying or a command. It can also refer to a thing one thinks about or an unspoken word. It also applies to a tale, a narrative, or a story, and it was used initially without any distinction between true or false stories. Over time the word came to refer to a fiction, fable, or children's story. The Harvard scholar of classics, Gregory Nagy, attributes the lack of modern consensus about myth in part to the semantic shift of the word in antiquity to meaning something untrue, as opposed to "true things" (aletheia). Over time, the Greek word developed the connotation of being something of questionable legitimacy.
(M. Smith - The Priestly Vision of Genesis 1, Fortress Press 2010, p. 141)
The modern aspects of the word arise mainly due to the rise of science and a critical examination of history, as well as trying to come up with acceptable terms to deal with religious studies. "Myth" has come to serve as a useful label for many religious stories, including the Bible. It is problematic, however, due to Western attempts to rationalize non-Western cultural concepts and beliefs.
Moderns also have a bazillion definitions of the word "myth", all stemming from their particular field of study and the needs they are trying to meet with such a term.
Entire books have been dedicated to this problem. One useful definition of a religious myth is "any story involving gods or spirits". Of course, many Jews and Christians feel this exempts their sacred texts since they believe in only one God - and this has been used by scholars of the past as well. But we know better now. There are myths in the Bible. Does this make those stories untrue? Probably ha ha!
But I would not simplify this matter as making "myth" synonymous with "allegory" - the ancients certainly never saw this equation when they composed their works. Most of them DID believe in gods.
Can someone tell us where "this assertion from skeptics and some atheists that just because something is a myth it is naturally not true" comes from? I see "Sodom is real, so the whole bible is true? Well, New York is real, so Spiderman exists." I know of nobody who claims that Babylon didn't exist.
From generally reading these threads. People will say this or that in threads is "a myth" and they almost invariably mean not "an explanatory story or allegory" but "not true."
I've been on this forum awhile. I've seen stuff.
Whoppers, that's the point. It was something that didn't need to be true, because it was True on a larger level.
Did mankind really get created from clay and blood (Babylonian creation story)? Probably not. It was representative of something true of reality to the Babylonians, that to them, people were essentially as valuable as... pottery. I'm super glad that I do not live during Babylonian culture.
Basically, the term "myth" has unfortunate implications, due to the modern connotation of the word.
Beliefs do not require gods. They refer to truth as understood by the teller through use of symbols. Which is why parable or allegory is the best replacement for the word myth, still.
Also, I have seen myths written by atheists. Flipside by Brion Foulke for instance, has some post-enlightenment heroes, no centralized deity, and the idea that magic isn't real in a fantasy story (but oddly, there are also some Christian themes). A myth as a story does not need to involve conventional symbols, or even conventional truths. It only has to tell a story and make you think of the world in a new way.
But this begs the question. Is the myth really written by the writer or the reader? As I said, Brion Foulke is an atheist. Did he (as writer) intend his work to have Christian themes, but through the eye of an atheist? Or did I as a Christian filter his themes, from my own frame of reference to make it apply to me? Can the Bible be personally meaningful to a Jain or Hindu? And vice versa for their own scripture? Who is myth actually intended for, and what is its purpose?
From generally reading these threads. People will say this or that in threads is "a myth" and they almost invariably mean not "an explanatory story or allegory" but "not true."
You know what they mean. Confirmation bias at work. Hardhead Area!
Erm, they say it in a belittling way. Like "that's just a myth."
There isn't anything "just" about a myth. It's a finger pointing to the moon. The image showing the deeper thing.
I'm seeing that your whole long OP is based on the idea that you know what other people really mean. And I doubt you read those posts the way they were meant to be read because you just don't like them, even while you're misunderstanding them. This is meant to explain to you where you went wrong, not being judgmental. Buddha knows a lot of people do it.
In the Bible itself says at 2 Corinthians 4:3-4.........``But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost....In whom the god of this world has blinded the minds of them which believe not , lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ , who is the image of God , should shine on to them ``.................. See the living God through Jesus Christ will never reveal Himself to the faithless , and the devil of this world will convince man that God does not exist and then the devil spirit will also hide himself from unbelievers , so the hopeless unbeliever only has the myth of the myth to show for his lack of truth .......
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