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We all see what we want to see. Ultimately, believing or disbelieving in God boils down to pride vs humility.
I disagree...It boils down to fantasy vs reality...The fantasy is the theistic dream of eternal life and the reality is that this life is all you have. I would have to conclude that us unbelievers are the humble ones that willingly accept our fate.
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No argument. Just pointing out that the death of Christianity has been predicted for literally eons, but it's still thriving.
I find it sad that in spite of what I posted earlier about the decline of religions, including Christianity, you choose to believe Christianity is still thriving...Now that takes faith.
"When the churches literally ruled society, the human drama encompassed: (a) slavery; (b) the cruel subjection of women;(c)the most savage forms of legal punishment; (d) the absurd belief that kings ruled by divine right; (e) the daily imposition of physical abuse; (f) cold heartlessness for the sufferings of the poor; as well as (g) assorted pogroms ('ethnic cleansing' wars) between rival religions, capital punishment for literally hundreds of offenses, and countless other daily imposed moral outrages. . . . It was the free-thinking, challenging work by people of conscience, who almost invariably had to defy the religious and political status quo of their times, that brought us out of such darkness."
Steve Allen
I disagree...It boils down to fantasy vs reality...The fantasy is the theistic dream of eternal life and the reality is that this life is all you have. I would have to conclude that us unbelievers are the humble ones that willingly accept our fate.
Come on, now. Let's be honest.
We all look at basically the same evidence and about 60% of people come to the conclusion that there is a God, while roughly 40% come to the opposite conclusion (by your own figures).
According to you and just about every other atheist/agnostic I've ever known, it's because y'all don't see something which others do, yet you make the claim that THEY are deceiving themselves and pretty much believing on nothing, so far as you can see. The implication, and sometimes spoken right out loud, is that the A/A's are smarter, wiser and more observant that those who believe, that your disbelief is based upon facts, while their belief is based upon nothing more than blind faith, unsupported by anything at all. You use words like "myth" and "fantasy."
And, I've never yet met an A/A who doesn't take great pride in his "smartness," who doesn't like to point out how much more rigorous his study of the issue was, how much brighter and informed he is for coming to the "right" conclusion and how defective those who do believe really are in comparison.
By any definition, that's pride at work: Pride in self, pride in superior intellectualism, pride in not having to bow to any higher authority.
Example: How many threads are started here by A/A's challenging believers to "prove" their religion? How many are started to belittle our beliefs? Are those threads started to convince and persuade, or to ridicule? Those are acts of pride.
Conversely, how many threads are started by believers to do the same things? How often do believers begin threads to "call out" A/A's?
Yes, it does happen, rarely, but the lack of such threads is an indication of the humilty of the believers, not their pride.
Interestingly, that Bible you all claim isn't important had this to say about pride:
Psa 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek [after God]: God [is] not in all his thoughts.
So is Hinduism and it's been thriving for longer that Christianity. Does that mean it's true?
I wasn't comparing religions, just pointing out that the "death" of Christianity has been predicted for a long time. Nobody that I know of is predicting the imminent death of Hinduism.
In fact, who is predicting the coming end of ANY religion EXCEPT Christianity? I wonder why that is?
Satire aside, the most astonishing thing is that it once you commit to believe, and put self aside, it DOES make perfect sense. The scriptures say that it's all gibberish to those who don't believe and that turns out to be true.
One point of the O.P. was that the Muslim scriptures are gibberish to those who don't believe also.
We all look at basically the same evidence and about 60% of people come to the conclusion that there is a God, while roughly 40% come to the opposite conclusion (by your own figures).
According to you and just about every other atheist/agnostic I've ever known, it's because y'all don't see something which others do, yet you make the claim that THEY are deceiving themselves and pretty much believing on nothing, so far as you can see. The implication, and sometimes spoken right out loud, is that the A/A's are smarter, wiser and more observant that those who believe, that your disbelief is based upon facts, while their belief is based upon nothing more than blind faith, unsupported by anything at all. You use words like "myth" and "fantasy."
And, I've never yet met an A/A who doesn't take great pride in his "smartness," who doesn't like to point out how much more rigorous his study of the issue was, how much brighter and informed he is for coming to the "right" conclusion and how defective those who do believe really are in comparison.
By any definition, that's pride at work: Pride in self, pride in superior intellectualism, pride in not having to bow to any higher authority.
Example: How many threads are started here by A/A's challenging believers to "prove" their religion? How many are started to belittle our beliefs? Are those threads started to convince and persuade, or to ridicule? Those are acts of pride.
Conversely, how many threads are started by believers to do the same things? How often do believers begin threads to "call out" A/A's?
Yes, it does happen, rarely, but the lack of such threads is an indication of the humilty of the believers, not their pride.
Interestingly, that Bible you all claim isn't important had this to say about pride:
Psa 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek [after God]: God [is] not in all his thoughts.
How true that seems to be here.
Ah, yes, calling pride evil and sinful is just another tool that has always been used by religion to control the masses...(You are nothing but filthy rags)
Tell me what is wrong with being proud of who you are or what you've accomplished...Pride is overall a good thing in my opinion...Unquestioning obedience to dogma is not. Perhaps that is why so many of the religious have such terrible self images.
The implication that atheists are smarter/wiser and more educated is not an implication, but is borne out by statistics....The reason that on average we are is because we are questioners, curious and want to discover the truth of how the world works, whereas the religious have closed their minds to many things because those things conflict with their doctrine.
Pride being a good example of this...I think it's good, your doctrine says that it's a bad thing, so you don't question, and just accept what your bible tells you.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it......
Terry Pratchett
Ah, yes, calling pride evil and sinful is just another tool that has always been used by religion to control the masses...(You are nothing but filthy rags)
Tell me what is wrong with being proud of who you are or what you've accomplished...Pride is overall a good thing in my opinion...Unquestioning obedience to dogma is not. Perhaps that is why so many of the religious have such terrible self images.
The implication that atheists are smarter/wiser and more educated is not an implication, but is borne out by statistics....The reason that on average we are is because we are questioners, curious and want to discover the truth of how the world works, whereas the religious have closed their minds to many things because those things conflict with their doctrine.
Pride being a good example of this...I think it's good, your doctrine says that it's a bad thing, so you don't question, and just accept what your bible tells you.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it......
Terry Pratchett
You do realize, don't you, that you're stereotyping us badly?
Ah, yes, calling pride evil and sinful is just another tool that has always been used by religion to control the masses...(You are nothing but filthy rags)
Tell me what is wrong with being proud of who you are or what you've accomplished...Pride is overall a good thing in my opinion...Unquestioning obedience to dogma is not. Perhaps that is why so many of the religious have such terrible self images.
The implication that atheists are smarter/wiser and more educated is not an implication, but is borne out by statistics....The reason that on average we are is because we are questioners, curious and want to discover the truth of how the world works, whereas the religious have closed their minds to many things because those things conflict with their doctrine.
Pride being a good example of this...I think it's good, your doctrine says that it's a bad thing, so you don't question, and just accept what your bible tells you.
The presence of those seeking the truth is infinitely to be preferred to the presence of those who think they've found it......
Terry Pratchett
Pride is nothing less than lifting yourself up onto your own throne. It presupposes your own superiority and is the opposite of humility.
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