Why Do We Wear Clothes - Evolutionists? (atheist, spirits, Christianity)
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You may be right. Kids don't feel shame any more than they feel God - belief. Perhaps shame has to be taught, like religion. And then you have to get used to being without it without feeling that something is missing.
Yep. The first thing my grandson does when he comes into the house is to strip naked. I remember when I was a teen that one of my friends used to practice his trumpet naked in the summer time (at least he said he did).
That's all very nice. And has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that wearing a parka outdoors in North Dakota in January is better than running around in the buff.
Of course it has nothing to do with it, but I have a feeling it's the true reason for this thread.
Yep. The first thing my grandson does when he comes into the house is to strip naked. I remember when I was a teen that one of my friends used to practice his trumpet naked in the summer time (at least he said he did).
Well he probably had to get naked in order to have full access to his trumpet.
It's a good question. Why are we ashamed of nakedness? We can only theorize. I feel it might be something to do with position within the community. Someone whose 'parts' are concealed feels less vulnerable than someone who is naked. There is an element of indicating superiority in making your captives or subordinates go naked or nearly so.
Discuss.
Generally, religious moral issues is what brought about shame of nudity. The whole wave of Augustine and the Catholic church making sexuality taboo and bad, and equating nudity with sex. Cultures that have conservative religious values are more likely to associate sex with nudity, thus nudity became shameful outside the marriage bed.
That's why nudity is such an issue in the United States, and kids growing up these days do the towel dance in the gym locker room to avoid being naked in front of other people.
Europe, Australia, etc. are less likely to equate nudity with sex, so you see co-ed saunas/steam rooms, nude beaches, etc. and nobody cares.
Humans evolved complex brains that gave us the ability to become tool-makers. Like the bow, knife, spear, etc., clothing was originally just another tool humans developed to survive the diverse environments we spread out into from our ancestral home in Africa.
Well, I have to admit, there are a few great arguements here for evolution. But for me, this really makes me that much more thankfull. I know for a fact that I have a personal relationship with God. For 16 years now God has been blowing my mind with His goodness and the very close relationship He has blessed me with. This is something that I cannot prove to you and I will not even try...
Quote:
Originally Posted by astounded_rflmn
(And on and on you chant... but... what's your point, O-D, as regards clothing? Your entire post is vacant any relationship to man's lack of a need for clothing. Also duly noted by Voyager here:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur
That's all very nice. And has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that wearing a parka outdoors in North Dakota in January is better than running around in the buff.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Voyageur
You may have noticed that we're also not very good at living:
*At the bottom of the ocean
*On the moon
*Inside active volcanoes
At least not without a great deal of protection (for the first two cases, anyway -- the third one is more problematic).
You appear to be putting forth the idea that it is a flaw in the evolutionary process that there are places where humans cannot live without technology of some sort. How you came up with this particularly weird notion is beyond me.
Good points, Voyager! FYI: I recently watched an intriguing series about the Earth's volcanic pre-history, and the work now being done by some Canadian bio-scientists who have found real functioning life in the highly acidic pools down in the caldera. The water temp is > 60˚ C and the pH is below 3, and yet... there it is! Able to procreate and eventually become some sort of leggy, motile beastie that LUVZ HEAT and hydrochloric acid baths!
Who'da thunk, huh? Certainly not a Creationist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by purehuman
O-Ducky....there are many, many animals that aren't equipped for severe cold, not just humans....and it doesn't mean they are "defective"....just different.
Our ability to migrate out into less suitable climates has had many implications. Those who live round the equatorial lands did not have to be as resourceful. They simply walked up to the nearest fruti tree and picked their dinner, any time of the year. Note that they, in Africa, Australia and India, wore little or no clothes.
(Our less intellectual cousins, Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals, were, in fact, somewhat hairier. They didn't therefore need to challenge their lifestyle as vigorously, and they perished when confronted by the more intellectual Homoerectus, our more direct, less hairy and more smarter, yup, cousins! And so it went.
Those whose minds and acumen drifted a bit further into the deeper, more challenging end of the gene pool were therefore able to migrate into otherwise less hospitable territory, ("Go north, young migrating sub-species!") thus reducing the competition, but also challenging their minds to be inventive (tools, hunting skills, testing the use of animal parts {fur, feathers, down} to design clothing and stay warm. See: Inuits.).
As well, they lost, over a long time, the need for extra melanin in their skin, and they became less darkly skin-toned. They actually didn't want all that protection since the human biosystem requires vitamin D, which is only naturally stimulated and created in our skin in the presence of sunlight, which was far less intense and regular in the north. Hence the fairer complexion of our more northerly ancestors.
In general ,they also exhibited a more active, inventive and rugged lifestyle and became, for the most part, the world's explorers (the Norsemen coming across the N. Atlantic ocean, the original Inuit who braved the Bering Sea in seal-skin kayaks of their own design, to thus inhabit the N. American continent, and those ingenious Fiji Islanders who took off in their oceanic boats to eventually land and colonize the Hawaiian Islands. And so on.
I.e.: Ingenuity and advanced [i.e.: critical!] thinking skills, all the while tested against a very difficult and challenging environment.
No God required, BTW. The Inuit, the Norse, the Aussie Aboriginals, the N. American Plains Indian culture, the Mayans, and all the rest, certainly didn't need Him, especially since He wasn't invented until literally tens of thousands of years later.
But then those pathologically wrong-headed, ego-centric & arrogant religious zealot missionaries arrived in all those countries, and whupped the previously well-adjusted population into good Christian shape. Oh, and coincidentally crushed the society, life and happiness out of the otherwise fully-functioning and happy original cultures there. (See: Michener's "Hawaii", or his other stunner: "Alaska", the books are better than the movie but that does require some extra effort. Just rent the movie on Hawaii, and gloat over the fine values and practices of Christian missionary work!)
The real question is not why people don't have much hair, but WHEN we lost it. And I think the answer to that can be found in the genetics of that dreaded critter called body lice.
Good points, Voyager! FYI: I recently watched an intriguing series about the Earth's volcanic pre-history, and the work now being done by some Canadian bio-scientists who have found real functioning life in the highly acidic pools down in the caldera. The water temp is > 60˚ C and the pH is below 3, and yet... there it is! Able to procreate and eventually become some sort of leggy, motile beastie that LUVZ HEAT and hydrochloric acid baths!
Who'da thunk, huh? Certainly not a Creationist.
Our ability to migrate out into less suitable climates has had many implications. Those who live round the equatorial lands did not have to be as resourceful. They simply walked up to the nearest fruti tree and picked their dinner, any time of the year. Note that they, in Africa, Australia and India, wore little or no clothes.
(Our less intellectual cousins, Cro-Magnons and Neanderthals, were, in fact, somewhat hairier. They didn't therefore need to challenge their lifestyle as vigorously, and they perished when confronted by the more intellectual Homoerectus, our more direct, less hairy and more smarter, yup, cousins! And so it went.
Those whose minds and acumen drifted a bit further into the deeper, more challenging end of the gene pool were therefore able to migrate into otherwise less hospitable territory, ("Go north, young migrating sub-species!") thus reducing the competition, but also challenging their minds to be inventive (tools, hunting skills, testing the use of animal parts {fur, feathers, down} to design clothing and stay warm. See: Inuits.).
As well, they lost, over a long time, the need for extra melanin in their skin, and they became less darkly skin-toned. They actually didn't want all that protection since the human biosystem requires vitamin D, which is only naturally stimulated and created in our skin in the presence of sunlight, which was far less intense and regular in the north. Hence the fairer complexion of our more northerly ancestors.
In general ,they also exhibited a more active, inventive and rugged lifestyle and became, for the most part, the world's explorers (the Norsemen coming across the N. Atlantic ocean, the original Inuit who braved the Bering Sea in seal-skin kayaks of their own design, to thus inhabit the N. American continent, and those ingenious Fiji Islanders who took off in their oceanic boats to eventually land and colonize the Hawaiian Islands. And so on.
I.e.: Ingenuity and advanced [i.e.: critical!] thinking skills, all the while tested against a very difficult and challenging environment.
No God required, BTW. The Inuit, the Norse, the Aussie Aboriginals, the N. American Plains Indian culture, the Mayans, and all the rest, certainly didn't need Him, especially since He wasn't invented until literally tens of thousands of years later.
But then those pathologically wrong-headed, ego-centric & arrogant religious zealot missionaries arrived in all those countries, and whupped the previously well-adjusted population into good Christian shape. Oh, and coincidentally crushed the society, life and happiness out of the otherwise fully-functioning and happy original cultures there. (See: Michener's "Hawaii", or his other stunner: "Alaska", the books are better than the movie but that does require some extra effort. Just rent the movie on Hawaii, and gloat over the fine values and practices of Christian missionary work!)
Oh well; sacrifices have to be made, huh?
That's pretty good. I heard that Ice age was one reasons why the Neanderthals finally cashed in their chips and the need to wear furs, hair or not, and the subsequent wearing of clothes after that (except in tropical areas) would reduce the amount of body hair. But the the near nude equatorials don't have that much body hair either. I know that some Russo Japanese strains have a lot of facial hair and we sometimes get atavistic reversions to a hairier human but I still can't explain where the hair went to in the Bufftribes of the Amazon.
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