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Well, then I guess the big bang would also have to classified as fiction. Since it cannot possibly be proven.
Amazing ignorance. The Big bang has supportive evidence (as Thom R pointed out, largely proved by a catholic scientist) It is far more than fiction, though there are always more things to be found out about it.
Your dismissing it as 'fiction' along with your books of facts about which you were so deprecating is clear evidence of your poor reasoning, contempt for science (we have seen plenty of that) and your misunderstanding and fearful demonizing of atheism as wanting to suppress all mention of religion.
Jizzus on a stick, no wonder atheism is finding it slow going when we are up against a mindset like this and I regret to say found even in highly intelligent and rational theists.
While there is a danger of going down the 'excise all myth' road, it must come to the conclusion that there is no more point in removing Christianity from History than in removing the roman gods.
When Christianity no longer has any more grip on our minds and society than do the Greek gods (that is culturally) then we can be content. Those who insist on belief can believe. Religion can be taught - but all religions, past and present. And in the religion class, not in the science class.
You continue to make unsubstantiated statements, and will make little progress on this thread until you begin backing them up.
I have mentioned this before too, raison. You need to provide quotes or other evidence that Dawkins or someone else said that "schools will leave religion out of school completely, even to teach history correctly". I have never heard or read anything like this.
I really tend to think that you, like many other people, find the position that religion, especially organized religion, is harmful and silly as offensive. That's ok. But, I think you (and others) take that and expound upon it to the point that they "will leave religion out of school completely, even to teach history correctly" when no one, in fact, said that. It appears you have slid down that slippery slope.
Don't let facts get in the way. Imagination is really useful, especially when you use it to imagine something to demonize people who make you uncomfortable.
√ First, the concept of "New Atheist" is in itself a misconception. The only thing new about the "New Atheist" writers is that they have been published by mainstream publishing houses, and have mainstream recognition.
√ As far as the charge of killing emotion and creativity, it seems absolutely baseless to me. I have never heard a materialist atheist condemning the Wizard of Oz or Harry Potter because they are falsehoods. I have not seen an atheist condemning entire genres and forms of music because they stir certain emotions. These things I have only seen emanating from religion.
As an atheist, I think storytelling, creative writing, fiction of all striped, art, dance, music, and deep emotion are essential parts of what makes us human. I would never want any of these to be diminished in any way. I read fantasy and science fiction, not because I believe in dragons and aliens, but because a good author uses these devices to show us something of our own human nature.
√ I do not, however, believe that a literal belief in fiction is appropriate for a mature, rational human being. In this I think I am in agreement with most theists, with the one exception of their particular holy writings or stories, which I also classify as fiction and treat accordingly.
NoCapo
Well stated, NoCapo! The OP' true inner intent, IMHO, is to have atheism banned and it's evil supporters burned at the town square, the fires fed by the very books and ideas they have authored. That's the true desire of organized religion; to wit: a complete dominance of the culture, hounding it's illiterate innocents by fear and harsh disciplinary actions. As a secular example, just take a look at the N. Korean regime and their relentless sub-human tactics of intimidation and control.
If Christianity (and more recently,. Islam) had it's way, we'd still be back in the Very Dark Ages. And those living off the toils of the peasantry would be lazing in their church-castles (see: the Cathedral at Notre--Dame as a primo example...) sipping their wine and chasing the women they have assigned to Pleasing the Gods.
No wonder they hate the advancements and "encroachments" of rational science and thought so vehemently! Think of what they are losing! OMG!
Jizzus on a stick, no wonder atheism is finding it slow going when we are up against a mindset like this and I regret to say found even in highly intelligent and rational theists.
When Christianity no longer has any more grip on our minds and society than do the Greek gods (that is culturally) then we can be content.
Bingo! I now refer to that wonderful quote:
"Men will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest"
Ok, come on... lets get real here. These guys obviously don't support the 1st amendment. They obviously want to banish religion from this world. They want to steal the imagination on the world and replace it with cold, hard, depressing facts.
Your fear of The Truth is palpable and odious. We atheists do, in fact, want to keep fairy-tales correctly kept in the right "Fiction" section of the vast human cultural library, that's for true. We do not book falsehoods being jammed down the hearts & minds of every innocent << 10 year old child out there, until they are all quivering in fear, and plaintively looking for your version of God/Jesus to "save them". Phunny, but criminally mis-directed.
I didn't mean all atheists, just the ones behind this movement.
Ok, so long as you are accepting that they are a-typical. I am willing to modify my comments.
However, I rather agree with the earlier posts that this 'movement' is nothing more than many active atheists who, like me, see no point or future in being silent. I suspect that these 'New Atheists' no more reject beauty and fantasy and indeed untrammeled speculation than I do and revere logic science and unemotional appraisal no more than I do.
Perhaps you could let me know where this group exists assuming it isn't just in your imagination.
Amazing ignorance. The Big bang has supportive evidence (as Thom R pointed out, largely proved by a catholic scientist) It is far more than fiction, though there are always more things to be found out about it.
I attempted to find such evidence, if you could provide it for me that would be great.
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Your dismissing it as 'fiction' along with your books of facts about which you were so deprecating is clear evidence of your poor reasoning, contempt for science (we have seen plenty of that) and your misunderstanding and fearful demonizing of atheism as wanting to suppress all mention of religion.
You are choosing to read into this what you want. First, I am not Christian and do not subscribe to any faith. I am not trying to demonize atheists.
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Jizzus on a stick, no wonder atheism is finding it slow going when we are up against a mindset like this and I regret to say found even in highly intelligent and rational theists.
Their finding it slow going because they are going about it all wrong. When you come off and make it a point to tell all theists that you believe atheists are smarter, you come off as arrogant. When you tell these people they need to admit their belief is a fairy tail, this is also arrogant.
A religious/spiritual belief is not something most people take lightly, they hold them dear and aren't going to be swayed by your arrogant remarks.
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While there is a danger of going down the 'excise all myth' road, it must come to the conclusion that there is no more point in removing Christianity from History than in removing the roman gods.
You can't possibly remove it from history, it is a massive part of history.
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When Christianity no longer has any more grip on our minds and society than do the Greek gods (that is culturally) then we can be content. Those who insist on belief can believe. Religion can be taught - but all religions, past and present. And in the religion class, not in the science class.
I have suggested religion be taught in a religion class several times. Each time an atheist chimes in and says who is going to pay for this class? Who is going to teach this class? Schools are already hard up on money, yada, yada, yada... But, since you suggested it, they probably wont. They will say great idea, and they can support that.
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That's reasonable and fair, isn't it?
To a point. I don't think they should be teaching anything in science class that hasn't been proven.
Where is this movie? I have heard of the books but not the movie. <cut for brevity>
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Originally Posted by peppermint
Hello?!?! Where is this movie???
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Originally Posted by peppermint
You mean like posting the movie or explaining where you saw it? I checked Amazon and couldn't find this movie. Where is it?
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
I just came across it. There are two versions of it. One is done by atheists, the other is a response by Christians. Both are bad messages that are being spread. <snip>
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Originally Posted by raison_d'etre
I got both copies from a friend of mine. Yes, he is an atheists. He doesn't agree with the movement either. Thinks it is too extreme.
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Originally Posted by peppermint
I'd like to know the names of the movies, if you remember them or if you can ask your friend. I'd like to watch them myself. <edited to avoid filling up City-Data>
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Originally Posted by KCfromNC
Don't let facts get in the way. Imagination is really useful, especially when you use it to imagine something to demonize people who make you uncomfortable.
OK, raison_d'etre. Put up or shut up. You've been asked several times to cite the movies you mentioned in the OP. Post the Titles. Post links to the Internet Movie Database. Post something. Your credibility is on the line here. Frankly, I'm not giving you any credence until I can find the Trailer on YouTube.
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