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Old 11-01-2011, 06:23 PM
 
2,319 posts, read 4,804,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
Not the OP, but since you ask, it's determined by the direction and biochemical intentions of the dominant DNA in the particular cellular organization at hand, so to speak. It's life regardless of it's final form. I'd call it whatever it so obviously was when we could actually see that. I mean, it's probably not an iris if it's tail wags and it barks, right?
I agree with you. I was just curious. It wasn't a trap.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:53 PM
 
Location: Florida
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"I knew you in the womb" God. I believe conception begins at fertilization (when their is fusion of an ovum with sperm ) even before it becomes an embryo.

Das
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:19 PM
 
Location: planet octupulous is nearing earths atmosphere
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life began in the oceans, or did it begin in space??> and was accidentally delivered to the oceans via astroids, comets??
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Old 11-02-2011, 04:57 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,088 posts, read 20,731,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cruxan View Post
life began in the oceans, or did it begin in space??> and was accidentally delivered to the oceans via astroids, comets??
The OP linked to a discussion on the abortion issue so the question was a rather loaded one as we saw from the suggestion that 'life' is present in a cell. The OP was equivocating (probably not intentionally) between life present in all cells and an indiviual human life the extinction of which is morally wrong. That's what the thread is about.

To somehow load any cell with the 'Life' label leaves it open to objecting to stopping its development at any time the objector likes. That is a bit of a cheat.

The question is, given that there's hardly anybody who would agree to a baby being aborted at any time before birth, just where can we draw the line if at all?

Obviously religious stance has a part to play here. That's not important and anyone who says they 'believe' such nad such has to give a good reason why, or they are just breathing got air.

I am not entirely happy about abortion at any stage post viable fertilisation. I am not entirely happy about the slaughter of animals for food either, but we do it.

True we are talking about a human life not animal but we are also talking about another life - the mother, not just our shopping list.

So the three week limit seems a reasonable cut - off point from what's been discussed so far. Objections on rhetorical and semantic grounds are really not to be credited any more than objections on theological grounds.
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Old 11-02-2011, 05:09 AM
 
Location: Earth
24,620 posts, read 28,286,152 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
Set aside the "abortion issue" component of the article, and this gives a lot of expert medical/scientific information and opinion on the matter of "When Does Life Begin?": The Case Against Abortion: Medical Testimony
Nothing like the smell of an anti-choice site first thing in the morning.
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:00 AM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,809 posts, read 26,561,880 times
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Ideas I've heard

Conception

Implantation - Embryo adheres to the wall of the uterus.

Brain formation - 8-26 weeks after conception depending on terms meant by "brain formation."

Viability - A bit under 22 weeks after conception at earliest. (See James Elgin Gill)

Miracle child

Personhood - Possibly as early as 7 months after birth.

Watching the world in motion, babies take a first step toward language
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Old 11-02-2011, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
2,705 posts, read 3,121,233 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Ideas I've heard

Conception

Implantation - Embryo adheres to the wall of the uterus.

Brain formation - 8-26 weeks after conception depending on terms meant by "brain formation."

Viability - A bit under 22 weeks after conception at earliest. (See James Elgin Gill)

Miracle child

Personhood - Possibly as early as 7 months after birth.

Watching the world in motion, babies take a first step toward language
Conception must occur before any of these. Interesting that it was the first one on your list. And when we ask "When does life begin?" it should be understood that the question refers to individual human life, not the life on Earth or life as we know it.
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:22 AM
 
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If you were to ask various Christian sects over the centuries, many would answer at the Quickening, or when the mother first starts to feel movement in the womb (roughly 3.5 months in). Before modern science, many Christian sects believed that this was when God imparted a soul, and that before that the fetus was just a empty flesh-vessel awaiting the breath of life from God. This is why many Christian sects allowed abortions prior to the Quickening - including the Catholic Church for about half of its existence.
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Old 11-02-2011, 09:59 AM
 
Location: City-Data Forum
7,943 posts, read 6,068,060 times
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Life begins with the Chimeras, Deformed Babies, Harlequin Children, Still Births, Conjoined Twins, Down Syndrome Babies... The haploid cells themselves are alive, So life began with the original cell which sprang forth all or most current living organisms. Human life begins with the haploid cells which are also human, but in a different stage of their development. mutations might not be considered fully human, but the haploids definitely are.
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Old 11-02-2011, 10:48 AM
 
6,222 posts, read 4,012,342 times
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Speaking of chimeras and haploid cells perhaps this article may be of some interest.

The Stranger Within... http://www.katewerk.com/chimera.html
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