The Concept of God is Meaningless

[bulmabriefs144]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

This is pointless. Those who resort to "You know I'm right, you just won't admit it!" have pretty much no other argument. It is Faith and trying to force the Faith onto the other side whether they want it or not. I'm actually disappointed with this, Bulmar, your being a sortagod agnostic, or I thought you were.

I think this kinda proves you don't really understand me at all.

I'm a straight up theist, but I understand religion is ultimate concern. That is, you cannot really be an atheist, because whatever you truly believe in, that's your religion. A religion is whatever you care about. Now, you can make a claim "I do not believe in God." When you assert, "God is meaningless" or "I know God does not exist" you start moving into religious fiction (you are denying that your own assertion is in fact a belief, and you are also stifling my belief system). Each person has two religions: the religion they are taught by others, and the only that is their true religion, the one they believe in. When you start messing with this, that's when people legitimately have an issue. Personal accountability in religion.

I am not sortagod agnostic. That's pinning a label on me, based on your expectations.

I believe in the existence of a God, not as an agnostic who has doubts, but as a religious scholar who has seen proof. The difference from me and your garden variety theist, is that I understand enough about religion to know that God doesn't want us to be Christian or Jewish or anything. You can be atheist, or Sikh, or whatever and it troubles nobody. It is the attitude of non-judgement that God wants.

Which is precisely the problem I have with this thread. It is like "your religion is bad and you're stupid" but if I try to complain ppl are like "I thought you were cool." No, not with this.

For the record, as a theist, it would be more accurate to call me a hippie animist Christian. I believe in Jesus and also believe in stuff like reincarnation and that God is in nature, in rocks and trees.

[TRANSPONDER]

I am always willing to be corrected. you are a theist believing in a particular god, Biblegod, I presume. Just Biblegod or with Jesus thrown in?

I'm only asking out of a mix of idle curiosity and consideration for you so as to get your brand of theism right. Not that it makes much difference to the point I made nor to your well -poisoning speculations about atheism.

Btw. appr.of 0, Listened to Shostakovich 7th yesterday. Great work.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

But once you cross into the undermining of another person's beliefs " God/UFOs/Bigfoot/Nessie don't exist" you reach an unprovable point.

What has proof got to do with it? We do not deal in "proofs" or certainties. In science for example we never deal in certainties. We deal in statements that are substantiated and remain unfalsified but could still be wrong.

So when someone has a belief in, say, the afterlife.... that is a state of being where a human's consciousness survives independent of a living brain......... no one can deal in certainties and say there is or is not such a state.

What we CAN do however is point out that while our knowledge of the workings of consciousness is far from complete at this time......... the totality of our current knowledge..... 100 total % of it......... points to a link between the brain and consciousness. 0%. Nothing. Nadda. Zilch. Bugger all. Nichts. Squat. From that data....... 0% of it........... is even suggestive of any disconnect between the two, let alone through the death of one.

So this belief in an after life, or your own purported belief in reincarnation...... is simply unsubstantiated nonsense that ALSO contradicts what we currently hold to be true.

And more than that I do not really need to say, regardless of whether you feel it a "provable" point in terms of certainties.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

I think this kinda proves you don't really understand me at all.

And how are people meant to understand you if...........

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

whatever you truly believe in, that's your religion.

........ you simply go around making up meanings for words that are unlike the actual definitions most people use? In the context of this forum "religion" is "the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power, especially a personal God or gods." or "a particular system of faith and worship.".

Even the rarer definitions that divest the word of it's faith issues such as "a pursuit or interest followed with great devotion." still use words like "great" devotion in the definition. Which is still much more specific than your diluted "whatever you care about" nonsense. Your definition is nonsense. I care about my daughter. Is my daughter a religion now? At least try to make sense for once.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

When you assert, "God is meaningless" or "I know God does not exist" you start moving into religious fiction (you are denying that your own assertion is in fact a belief, and you are also stifling my belief system).

You must have a similarly bizarre definition of "stifle" then because I see nothing about expressing an opinion contrary to yours as being a move to stifle yours. If you personally feel stifled by people disagreeing with you however, that is another matter. But it is your issue, not that of the person you are responding to.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

I believe in the existence of a God

And there is nothing wrong with that. Just as there is nothing wrong with me then pointing out that your belief is unsubstantiated nonsense which has never been supported by a shred of argument, evidence, data or reasoning.... least of all from you.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

but as a religious scholar who has seen proof.

And let me guess this supposed "proof" of yours is going to be conveniently of the form you will not, or can not, present to anyone else.

Originally Posted by bulmabriefs144

also believe in stuff like reincarnation

And there is nothing wrong with that. Just as there is nothing wrong with me then pointing out that your belief is unsubstantiated nonsense which has never been supported by a shred of argument, evidence, data or reasoning.... least of all from you.

[Nozzferrahhtoo]

Originally Posted by victorianpunk

Congratulations: the thread failed from the very Title. A new record. No message needed: the title alone is a failure.

What oh what is [color=Red]THE [color=Black]concept of God that all religions believe in?

We are in a relatively rare state of near agreement here in that I also recognize that the word "god" means many different things to many different people. So there is no "one" definition of god in the first place.

That said however I can see both sides of this and the term "god", while diverse, does have meanings that are subscribed to by very large %s of people indeed.

For example MY personal definition of god is "A non-human intelligent intentional agency responsible for the creation and/or subsequent maintenance of our universe".

And that definition is broad enough to incorporate the meaning many MANY people subscribe to, and likely by far the majority of people in much of the Christian countries of the west and Muslim countries of the east. In fact if you were to delete tomorrow all the people in the world who had a definition of "god" that is also covered by mine.... I am genuinely unsure how many people (as a %) would be left in the world.

[Arach Angle]

Meaning is personal. for some a ton and others none.

"how the universe works" also has no meaning to many people.

some people won't even talk about how it works because the "truth" goes against their world view.

That doesn't change how it works.