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If you can not follow the thread I am not sure why I have to do it for you. Here again it how it went: I am referring to post #165 where you asked MC to turn the mirror on the line “I refuse to respect those who treat anyone unlike them with suspicion, hatred, or unfairness simply for having different opinion” by asking is this not also true of atheists and anti theists.
I responded, as I said, by pointing out that the problem most atheists have with theists is not that they have DIFFERENT beliefs. Different beliefs are great and the world would be dull and boring without them. The problem is with people having entirely baseless and unsubstantiated beliefs which they want implemented in the form of public policy, law or exceptions from same.
You have entirely ignored this reply, repeating ad infinitum a non sequitur about how many more theists there are than atheists which has nothing to do with anything I said, let alone this thread.
So, there ya go!
Can you now see I NEVER said a thing about Atheists (or Theists) refusing to have respect for people that take issue with those of differing beliefs? SHE did...and my sum total of a response was to ask her if she held herself accountable for that too.
So much for your #1) about what you claimed I said.
Then YOU responded to my post to her and said it wasn't a matter of "different beliefs", but a matter of "unsubstantiated beliefs".
I answered that, in case you didn't notice, those so-called "unsubstantiated beliefs" dominate both peoples minds and World Influence in a way nothing has ever done...while the Atheist Concept is impotent in it's ability to influence and motivate the masses.
In case you can't see into that point...it IS a relevant response, and it's much more than just "there are more Theists than Atheists".
It's YOU that can't follow...saying I said things I didn't...and not seeing where I addressed your "unsubstantiated beliefs" issues by noting that they are only unsubstantiated to those that lack the perceptive ability to substantiate them...and no matter, they are the most widely held and powerful concepts known to man, with Christian beliefs being the most powerful and influential of all...substantiated or not.
So, while you and other Atheists may have a "problem" with those "unsubstantiated beliefs"...they are much more prolific and powerful than your paranoia about them...and there is nothing you will ever do to substantially change it.
Try addressing THAT...instead of pretending that point isn't relevant or that you don't "get it", so you don't have to face the facts about that you don't like.
"I refuse to respect those who treat anyone unlike them with suspicion, hatred, or unfairness simply for having different opinion”
Yes, it's true of both theists and atheists. That becomes clear just by viewing some of the exchanges in this forum.
Quote:
I responded, as I said, by pointing out that the problem most atheists have with theists is not that they have DIFFERENT beliefs. Different beliefs are great and the world would be dull and boring without them. The problem is with people having entirely baseless and unsubstantiated beliefs which they want implemented in the form of public policy, law or exceptions from same.
As you know, I won't even attempt to dig up "proof". But I do have to wonder, what would you consider valid proof or evidence to this argument?
I have some vague recolections of shows that seemed (yes I said seemed because it was a LONG time ago), to provide proof/evidence that parts of Noah's Ark had been found, and also something about the shroud of Christ.
Since it was so long ago, I won't claim this as real proof. I was not/and am not inclined to try to dig up any evidence. My brain just isn't wired that way. But, back to my my main question, what type of evidence would you see and viable, because it seems to me, no matter what evidence were provided, some of you would pick it over like vultures until you found a flaw. Yet, I don't think you scrutinize your own evidence quite so thoroughly. I openly admit Christians are very likely guilty of the same behavior.
Last edited by looking4answers12; 12-13-2011 at 05:03 AM..
Reason: wording
Can you now see I NEVER said a thing about Atheists (or Theists) refusing to have respect for people that take issue with those of differing beliefs?
Again, you asked that the atheist mirror be turned on the claim that people have trouble with those of different beliefs. Hence the person in the mirror, the atheist, has trouble with different beliefs.
I replied to show this is false and atheists in fact cherish the beliefs of others, just not the unsubstantiated and baseless ones. So it is understandable you are running away from your own words now.
Your reply to this... a meaningless non sequitur of continuously comparing the numbers of theists statistically with the number of atheists which has nothing to do with anything I wrote.
Still finding it hard to press the preview button before you post I see. I will reply to the mess as best I can. If I miss anything you will have to forgive me for it but I have not the time to be too careful with people who were not careful themselves.
Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12
Yes, it's true of both theists and atheists. That becomes clear just by viewing some of the exchanges in this forum.
Yet as I said the position of most atheists on this forum is not to have an issue with people who's beliefs are simply different to their own, but with beliefs that are espoused in the public sphere without any substantiation at all.
There is always going to be some people on every side of every fence who simply deride anyone of differing beliefs, solely because they are different... but that is a different issue. It is not what the majority of atheists on these fora are engaged in. I, and many others, do not attack the idea there is a god solely because it is different to my idea. I attack the idea there is a god because it is entirely unsubstantiated and quite likely just fantasy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12
As you know, I won't even attempt to dig up "proof".
Nor are you alone. No one else seems bothered either. They are happy to go around claiming over and over there is a god. Not a single one of them seems all that bothered with substantiating their claims though.
Notice I said substantiate them though. I hardly ever use the word "proof". You did. I am not looking for anything as lofty as proof yet. I am looking - as a starting point - for any argument, evidence, data or reasons to even lend the claim credibility - let alone proof. None is forthcoming.
Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12
I do have to wonder, what would you consider valid proof or evidence to this argument?
Not my problem. That is up to the person making the claims. Evidence is not a thing but a process. In my opinion a three step process as follows:
1) State clearly your claim.
2) State clearly what you think is evidence for the claim.
3) Explain clearly how 2 supports 1.
So what is in 1, 2 and 3 is up to the person making the claim, not up to the person the claim is being made to. If you want to know what the evidence for god is then ask the people who claim to have it. Not me. Do not hold your breath though. I have been asking for over 19 years now and have been given nothing yet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by looking4answers12
Yet, I don't think you scrutinize your own evidence quite so thoroughly.
Care to give examples or is this just a generalisation you made up to sound good?
Yet as I said the position of most atheists on this forum is not to have an issue with people who's beliefs are simply different to their own, but with beliefs that are espoused in the public sphere without any substantiation at all.
Or more specifically, lies about what other people think and do. You'll find any number of examples from the OP in this thread, for instance. Correcting people when they say you worship the devil and never give anything to charity because you're evil and selfish is different than accosting strangers telling them to repent or burn forever.
Or more specifically, lies about what other people think and do. You'll find any number of examples from the OP in this thread, for instance. Correcting people when they say you worship the devil and never give anything to charity because you're evil and selfish is different than accosting strangers telling them to repent or burn forever.
This is a rough estimate based solely on my personal experience so it should not be taken as anything other than that, but I estimate that roughly 90% of what I write on many fora on the internet is pulling down the straw men of atheism people have erected.
In other words 90% of my time is spent telling these people - who likely will not listen anyway - what I have NOT said rather than helping them listen to what I DO say.
Still finding it hard to press the preview button before you post I see.
Ha ha. If I claimed adult ADHD would you agree that there is evidence that such a disorder exists?
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