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Actually I have no problem with that distinction.
My point was simply that this particular argument has no life until both sides can at least agree on what the law is regarding that subject.
I don't care to dabate about what the law SHOULD BE in the minds of Christians who want prayer in schools.
Just some basic knowledge of the Constitution and how it is uniquely applied in settings like public schools is all that's needed to continue the debate.
My debating "partner" is currently lacking that knowledge.
Hmmmmm, I really don't see this as complicated...maybe you're a legal eagle and are FAR smarter than this dumb ole Christian
[IMG]Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.[/IMG]
There's quite a bit here you can read on...while there have been actions taken both ways, there is nothing stating that what the girl did was ILLEGAL!
Hmmmmm, I really don't see this as complicated...maybe you're a legal eagle and are FAR smarter than this dumb ole Christian
I am not a lawyer.
What the girl did was not illegal.
My point is that there is much more at work here than "freedom of speech"
I'll end this with a simple scenario:
Boy wears shirt with a swear-word on it to school.
He is kicked out of school.
Can he claim Freedom of Speech? No. School rules.
Same boy wears same shirt out on a walk. He is arrested. Can he claim Freedom of Speech? Yes. Not illegal or bound by any other system of rules.
Make sense?
Same principle applies to prayer - and, no, I am not equating prayer to swearing. Just trying to show you what I mean.
You say there's a big difference between thanking Him and preaching Him. I see it as no different than someone saying "hey this 'enter product name' really worked for me, you should give it a try!"
"hey this 'enter product name' really worked for me" - ok, sorta. You have to tie it to the graduation
"you should give it a try!" - nope
"respecting an establishment of religion" kawgpz550, is the direction of the problem. Advocating a religion is frowned upon. That's why it doesn't say "under Jesus" in the Pledge, it says "under god" to skirt the rule by not being specific, even though most people understand the intent (wink wink, nudge nudge). She might have a little more standing if she went with god instead of Jesus. Both I feel are wrong, but the former tends to squeak by due to it's vagueness.
"hey this 'enter product name' really worked for me" - ok, sorta. You have to tie it to the graduation
"you should give it a try!" - nope
"respecting an establishment of religion" kawgpz550, is the direction of the problem. Advocating a religion is frowned upon. That's why it doesn't say "under Jesus" in the Pledge, it says "under god" to skirt the rule by not being specific, even though most people understand the intent (wink wink, nudge nudge). She might have a little more standing if she went with god instead of Jesus. Both I feel are wrong, but the former tends to squeak by due to it's vagueness.
Now that part probably made more sense than most of the other things I have read. God is pretty much "universal" whereas Jesus is Christianity only...I'll give you that one.
That being said, I guess where my problem lies is with the fact that at my kids' school, the Muslims are allowed to leave class in order to do their prayer time as they are required. I live in a pretty small town, however, I know this to be a fact! Do other schools allow the same thing? So why should one be allowed but not the other?
It should be freedom of ALL or restriction of ALL! The USA has become so diverse and tries to push tolerance of other religions, which is fine with me...however, when other religions are being tolerated while Christians are being suppressed, that's where I see it as WRONG!
God is pretty much "universal" whereas Jesus is Christianity only...I'll give you that one.
Yeah, unless you're an atheist or maybe Hindu (they have more than one god).
As far as your story about Muslims leaving class to pray, that's got almost nothing to do with the girl's speech. The equivalent would have been if the girl was allowed to leave the ceremony to go pray and come back. As far as being allowed to leave class and pray, I'm not keen on it because it's disruptive to the class and a teacher's schedule. There are certain allowances that have always been made for religious reasons like allowing a day off for holidays (the jews got a lot at my college) so I can understand the school trying to be accommodating but like I said, letting them leave in the middle of class is disruptive UNLESS they can do it in the time it would normally take to go to the bathroom. In that case, it's no different than taking a hall pass.
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