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Preaching against, ridiculing, and waging political campaigns against Gay and Lesbian people is not only hateful but an attempt to legitimize prejudice and bigotry. The Catholic Church is waging a mean-spirited and intolerant campaign against the LGBT community and opposes the very dignity and civil rights that all citizens deserve.
Here in the US we have a secular country and there is such a thing as separation between church and state. Legal same-sex marriage is already on the books in several states such as New York, Massachusetts, Iowa, Connecticut, etc. and no religious hierarchy - which enjoy tax exemption status and other privileges - should try to interfere with the democratic process or the judicial system of this or any other country.
After all, Jews don't try to force the government or non-Jewish people to refrain from or make illegal the eating of pork, do they?
If the Catholic Church doesn't agree with same-sex marriage, I say let them refuse to perform such ceremonies in their churches. Who are they to try to prevent other religions or non-religious people and organizations from supporting such ceremonies?
The Vatican has a more conservative posture on everything. If so many neighboring European countries are very liberal and don't buy into ALL that the Vatican says its followers should do, then why are they making a fuss about Catholics across the ocean? Seriously, there is already a shortage of priests and nuns, why p!$$ them off even more?
Preaching against, ridiculing, and waging political campaigns against Gay and Lesbian people is not only hateful but an attempt to legitimize prejudice and bigotry. The Catholic Church is waging a mean-spirited and intolerant campaign against the LGBT community and opposes the very dignity and civil rights that all citizens deserve.
Here in the US we have a secular country and there is such a thing as separation between church and state. Legal same-sex marriage is already on the books in several states such as New York, Massachusetts, Iowa, Connecticut, etc. and no religious hierarchy - which enjoy tax exemption status and other privileges - should try to interfere with the democratic process or the judicial system of this or any other country.
After all, Jews don't try to force the government or non-Jewish people to refrain from or make illegal the eating of pork, do they?
If the Catholic Church doesn't agree with same-sex marriage, I say let them refuse to perform such ceremonies in their churches. Who are they to try to prevent other religions or non-religious people and organizations from supporting such ceremonies?
I sense this is a sincere post, contrary to bad timing I feel compelled to make a comment which will include Teds entry re the interview.
1) The Bishop is out of order with respects to the sermon
2) The Sister is out of order with respects to her pledge, allowing her application of acceptance toward Vow, not by manner of operations which will take time to evaluate but by agreement to the conditions which allowed the vocation itself.
3) Ill-will on behalf of clergy is not allowed, Ill-will on behalf of virtue by clergy is not allowed....(re this post
Reading Ratzinger before he became Pope would suggest the world hasn't seen nothin yet. I will get back to this tom.
Reading Ratzinger before he became Pope would suggest that you havn't seen nothin yet , so buckle up. I will get back to this tom.
I'm not too worried about this. I think that the next Pope will hail from Latin America and be moderate. I think Popes and the Vatican may take certain postures, but ultimately, it's the adherents that decide to apply them in their lives. Change can't be that radical or it would really create havoc in an institution's credibility.
Apparently you can. The article's "crack down" states that "the group was not speaking out strongly enough against gay marriage, abortion and women's ordination."
Speaking out strongly against gay marriage, abortion, and women's ordination is clearly NOT hate speech.
In modern parlance "hate" includes "any criticism of what I love or what makes me happy." And it makes some sense. We Christians love God, so criticism of God can feel hateful to many of us. Still you probably can think a love or a pleasure is disordered, foolish, etc without necessarily being hateful. Maybe you can't do it without hurting someone, but simply being honest can be hurtful.
However the media comes fairly close to indicating we're all supposed to basically support each others pleasures as long as they don't hurt any visible person. Catholicism refuses to go along with that trend so we "must" get our noses smacked on occasion.
the christian church and muslim are opposed to gay sex and a bunch of other stuff. the christian church is pro marriage but takes no responsibility for the 67% divorce rate and 79% 2nd time around divorce rate.
the early christian church was a ascetic monastic and celebate religion. its not now.
for the most part it is now a hedonistic oriented religion with a few rules most ignore.
Sorry but the hierarchy never was in touch with reality. It is a completely carnal ingrown exploitative power structure with no redeeming value. The Catholic Laity are innocent victims.
I think that the anachronistic idea that the RC church is still a temporal power, an independent nation, deeply contaminates the thinking of the church hierarchy....and not surprisingly the ill effects of this pretension are at its worst at the top.
A pope who would abolish the Vatican City as a "nation," cede its sovereignty to Italy, and turn the RC church into an organization with a totally spiritual role would the greatest pope in history.
It might also help encourage papal humility if St. Peters was turned into a museum, and the Pope, as Bishop of Rome, confined the performance of his ecclesiastical duties to the appropriate cathedral...which is grand enough.
the christian church and muslim are opposed to gay sex and a bunch of other stuff. the christian church is pro marriage but takes no responsibility for the 67% divorce rate and 79% 2nd time around divorce rate.
the early christian church was a ascetic monastic and celebate religion. its not now.
for the most part it is now a hedonistic oriented religion with a few rules most ignore.
Catholic divorce rates are comparatively low. Granted I find majority Catholic countries, like Austria or Belgium or Hungary, with relatively high divorce rates but some of the lowest divorces-per-100-marriages are found in Catholic or Orthodox nations like Poland or Mexico. (Which is maybe ironic as Americans once went to Mexico for "quickie divorce.") Malta is one of the most Catholic countries in Europe and only recently allowed divorce. Even then I think you have to have been separated for a year or so before divorce can be initiated.
Catholicism also encourages engagement-encounter to prepare couples for marriage and doesn't recognize marriages after divorce. Where I'm at the Catholic Church has even started running ads about marriage counseling and the importance of a successful marriage not just "go get married or else, don't worry about the consequences." Catholicism isn't Evangelical Protestantism, never marrying can be accepted too. So your point doesn't have validity so long as we're discussing nuns and Catholicism. If you want to go to the area where many of you are more comfortable, Evangelical Protestants, than by all means find the relevant threads for that.
This is merely an alignment of convenience with the American Evangelicals. After the debacle of paedophilia they really have been losing ground in asserting authority and/or influence in the last bastions of western civilisation where the church still holds much sway.
Getting on the agenda train for the GOP red meat issues like abortion and gay marriage is this a no brainer. However methinks the days of this alliance is on its way out and the RCC in Rome will lose yet another stronghold.
IMO this should happen sooner rather than later.
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