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Wallisdj-
Again, this is kind of my point. You just did what annoys me down here in the south. You can't in the same breath say that those were barbaric times, and then say God is all loving. If he was barbaric then, it would seem to reason he is barbaric now. People contribute all good things to God, whether it be a tornado missing a neighborhood to a child beating cancer. In the same breath they do not blame him for it happening. Seems an all loving God should just stop the tornado if he is up there controlling it anyways. I still fail to see how, under any context, it is ok to keep people from heaven because of their genitals. Even if he changed his mind later. Or to keep any descendants of a "bastard " out of heaven. It seems to me that there might only be a few million eligible for it.it just seems as if some christians, and God according to the Bible, are not even close to being loving. People become ineligible over trivial things and things beyond their control. This makes no sense to me, and if it makes sense to you I would like to know one thing... How can you condemn billions of people for no reason?
Ok, so I have seen some...odd... Bible verses lately, and wanted to see how Christians deal with these verses.
Numbers 11:18- The Lord has heard your whining and complaints: "if only we had meat to eat,surely we were better off in Egypt". Now the Lord will give you meat and you will have to eat it. You will eat it for a whole month until you gag and are sick of it. For you have rejected the Lord and you have complained to him.
Deuteronomy 23:1 - No one whose testicles are crushed or whose male organ is cut off shall enter the assembly of the Lord. No one of forbidden union may enter the assembly of the Lord. Even to the tenth generation, none of his descendants may enter the assembly of the Lord.
Psalm 137:9- Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Judges 21:10-11- Go strike the people of jabesh- Gilead with the edge of a sword; also the women and little ones. Every male and female who has lain with a male you shall devote to destruction.
There are hundreds more but I'll leave it at that. Barring people from heaven because their ancestors had a baby out of wedlock, bashing kids on rocks, forcing people to eat meat until the gag and vomit, simply because they had the nerve to complain, and killing a whole city because they didn't follow the Lord. I am genuinely wondering how you get past things like that.
I thought I would bold the part above which is NOT what those verses are about.
First of all, these people made an agreement, a covenant with God that they would abide by ALL the law of Moses and they agreed if they don't do ALL the law that God would be right to bring ALL the curses of the law down on them. But if they kept all the law God would be required to bless them with all the blessings.
Not allowing one into the congregation of the Lord is not equivalent to not "barring people from heaven." The congregation of Yahweh or "the Lord" was where the Hebrews assembled in the wilderness or in the promised land.
"Union, or incorporation into the nation of Israel, is primarily a matter of the
flesh. Even those born into it are excluded if they have certain physical
defects (Deut.23:1,2). An Ammonite or a Moabite was not allowed to enter
the congregation of Jehovah until the tenth generation, because they were
hostile to Israel at the exodus from Egypt, and tried to get Balaam to curse
God's people. Yet an Edomite or an Egyptian and their children are shut out
only to the third generation (Deut.23:3-8). The stranger who sojourns
among them cannot keep the passover with them unless he is first
circumcised in flesh (Ex.12:48). (Unsearchable Riches, vol.38, p.81).
But this was only till the tenth generation, not eternally and surely not about heaven!
As for your Plsam 137:9 you need to quote the context:
8 Daughter of Babylon, the devastator,
Happy is he who shall repay you
With your dealing which you dealt to us.
9 Happy is he who shall hold and shatter your descendants
Against the crag.
God was not telling Israel to do that. David was just writing that Babylon needs to be repaid for all their evil. That would be like a ruler in Israel in 1950 saying the same about Germany.
It is a nutty book, no doubt about it. It's no surprise that most hardcore bible followers, also have a blood drinking ritual.
Craziness breeds craziness.
You don't know the half of it. We are all a bunch of toad licking, orgy crazed, blood-letting, baby sacrificing people. Every Baptist, every Catholic, every Protestant does these things on a daily basis.
Eusebius-
All I ever hear is context context context. How can murder, rape, incest, forced marriages, slavery etc etc, be taken out of context? It is what it is. I don't see how murdering innocents or raping then forcing marriage on a virgin can be defended. Its ridiculous. And God said it was all ok... until he changed his mind...
Eusebius-
All I ever hear is context context context. How can murder, rape, incest, forced marriages, slavery etc etc, be taken out of context? It is what it is. I don't see how murdering innocents or raping then forcing marriage on a virgin can be defended. Its ridiculous. And God said it was all ok... until he changed his mind...
Since you won't accept any explaination from Christians, why did you start this thread?
What is your point? And BTW your questions should be directed at Jews since you cited from the Torah and the Psalms.
Eusebius-
All I ever hear is context context context. How can murder, rape, incest, forced marriages, slavery etc etc, be taken out of context? It is what it is. I don't see how murdering innocents or raping then forcing marriage on a virgin can be defended. Its ridiculous. And God said it was all ok... until he changed his mind...
So you don't believe context is important? Do you think rape is O.K.? Surely the Bible does not say it is O.K.
Slavery in the Bible is not what we consider today in our western world with thoughts of African-American bondage.
Slavery under the Hebrew paradigm was a safety net for people. If a Hebrew could not pay his bills to keep his land he would become a slave of another Hebrew who would help him. At the year of Jubilee all slaves went free and the slave owner was not to send him away empty handed. The freed slave got his land back at that year and all debts were wiped clean.
As to Murdering of innocents: War is hell. In war, especially back then, it was not murder but was "killing." It was murder if you murdered someone outside of warfare.
So you don't believe context is important? Do you think rape is O.K.? Surely the Bible does not say it is O.K.
Slavery in the Bible is not what we consider today in our western world with thoughts of African-American bondage.
Slavery under the Hebrew paradigm was a safety net for people. If a Hebrew could not pay his bills to keep his land he would become a slave of another Hebrew who would help him. At the year of Jubilee all slaves went free and the slave owner was not to send him away empty handed. The freed slave got his land back at that year and all debts were wiped clean.
As to Murdering of innocents: War is hell. In war, especially back then, it was not murder but was "killing." It was murder if you murdered someone outside of warfare.
Context doesn't help you out, unless you are making an argument FOR moral relativism.
When "God" tells a leader to go take over a foreign tribe, kill all the men, but keep the women for yourself.... that can hardly be called consensual sex.
When God supposedly killed the innocent first born children of the Egyptians, there is not a good justification for it.
I think you have to just admit that you are not allowed to take an objective look at the bible. You can only throw your hands in the air and say, "who am I to judge God?"
Because an objective look clearly shows that the bible depicts God as a wicked tyrant. He loves humans in the same way like Kim Jung Il loved North Koreans.
Context doesn't help you out, unless you are making an argument FOR moral relativism.
When "God" tells a leader to go take over a foreign tribe, kill all the men, but keep the women for yourself.... that can hardly be called consensual sex.
When God supposedly killed the innocent first born children of the Egyptians, there is not a good justification for it.
I think you have to just admit that you are not allowed to take an objective look at the bible. You can only throw your hands in the air and say, "who am I to judge God?"
Because an objective look clearly shows that the bible depicts God as a wicked tyrant. He loves humans in the same way like Kim Jung Il loved North Koreans.
Exactly. There is no justification for rape and murder. Context or no context.
So you don't believe context is important? Do you think rape is O.K.? Surely the Bible does not say it is O.K.
Slavery in the Bible is not what we consider today in our western world with thoughts of African-American bondage.
Slavery under the Hebrew paradigm was a safety net for people. If a Hebrew could not pay his bills to keep his land he would become a slave of another Hebrew who would help him. At the year of Jubilee all slaves went free and the slave owner was not to send him away empty handed. The freed slave got his land back at that year and all debts were wiped clean.
As to Murdering of innocents: War is hell. In war, especially back then, it was not murder but was "killing." It was murder if you murdered someone outside of warfare.
The bible repeatedly says that rape is okay. Telling men to find virgins and bring them to town for men to share is rape. The bible also repeatedly said you can beat your slave As long as you don't kill them it is ok. And only the men were set free after six years. Unless the woman is married before she becomes a slave. Oh, and slaughtering a town of innocents is murder. What about my previous question?
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