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Old 03-13-2013, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
And they're copied from the Biblical accounts.
As has already been pointed out more than once in this thread, you could not possibly be more wrong.
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Old 03-14-2013, 12:18 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffis View Post
As has already been pointed out more than once in this thread, you could not possibly be more wrong.
You know this how?
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Old 03-14-2013, 02:44 AM
 
Location: Holiday, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
None of them are. It's the other way around. The events of Genesis happened well before the Sumerians existed.
You know... You're absolutely right. Genesis did happen before the Sumerians existed. But, the Sumerians documented it last, in about 5,000 BC. The ancient Hebrews didn't exist to write the version you read until about 1,800 BC. More than 3,000 years later.

GOD told Utanapishtim to "Tear down the house and build a boat". Truly amazing when you learn that Utanapishtim's TITLE was Noah. He was the Noah of his family. The PATRIARCH. And, the ancient Hebrews wrote about it a thousand years after Utanapishtim was gone. They didn't get his name, only his title.

When you compare them, side-by-side, it becomes obvious that the ancient Hebrews copied the clay tablets from memory. The clay tablets have the same information, but in far more detail. And, they were written first, before the version of the old testament you read.

Another interesting bit of information... The Name of GOD. One of the ancient Hebrews asked GOD who he was. The answer evolved into JEHOVAH. But, the answer "TRANSLATES" into "I AM AS I WAS". It's not a name. It's not "who" GOD is. It's "what" GOD is. HE is the same GOD that he was before. The same GOD that talked to the ancient Sumerians when Utanapishtim was told to build the boat.

But, I keep hearing arguments that the Sumerians were POLYTHEISTIC and believed in many Gods. And, actually, that's very true. They did have many Gods. But, they also had a "TRIAD" made up of the Great Father of all Gods, the Son, and the God of the wind. The rest were "LESSOR" Gods that were MESSENGERS. Now, take a look at our own beliefs. One GOD, made up of three PERSONS. We also believe in 7 choirs of ANGELS. But, take a look at the origin of the term ANGELS. In greek, the word translates into.... MESSENGERS. Seems we have 7 choirs of "LESSOR" Gods, but we're "MONO-THEISTIC. Are we really?

So, if we take the "I AM AS I WAS" ("For me to know and for you to find out, but not from me." And, the Hebrews never did go back and find out just who GOD is) as instructions to go back and see WHO GOD is, then it becomes: AN, GOD the father. ENLIL, God the Son. And, ENKI, GOD the HOLY SPIRIT. Three persons in one GOD, much the same as we have just one U S Senate. Made up of 100 Senators. GOD is a committee of three GODs. The rest are our 7 choirs of.... Messengers, or the LESSOR Gods.

So, you're right. Genesis did happen before the Sumerians existed. But, your version of Genesis was not written before the ancient Hebrews in 1,800 BC, where as, the ancient Sumerians wrote about it some 3,000 years earlier.

When looking at them, side-by-side, it becomes obvious that the ancient Hebrews did copy the clay tablets, not by looking at them and reading them, but from incomplete memory. Memory that no longer had all the details.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:08 AM
 
Location: Holiday, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckmann View Post
This, BTW, does nothing to invalidate the teachings of Jesus, which is all that any Christian should concern himself with.
Could be an interesting side bar here.......

There are two "oldest complete Bibles" in the world. One, the Codex Vaticanus, located in the Vatican, and the one that has been translated into our current versions of the Holy Bible. The other, the Codex Sinaiticus, written by someone else, a few years later. Between the two, there are thousands of discrepancies. One says a woman was about to be stoned, the other says nothing about it. The Sinaiticus has two more books that do not appear in the Vaticanus. And, the Sinaiticus says nothing about the Resurrection. When Jesus was confronted with the lepers, one says he was filled with compassion. The other says he was angry.

Which one is the accurate version? Neither was written by any of the disciples. By the time either of them was written, the disciples were all dead, so both were written from the memory of two different people. Considering the differences, either one is accurate and the other is not, or both are inaccurate, and the truth may lie somewhere between the two.

But.... The old testament gives us the basis for the new testament. And, while Archaeologists have used the Bible to help them locate various sites for their digs, the clay tablets are also used and help them find and identify even older sites, so both are accurate historical records. I would suspect the older record would be more accurate.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:42 AM
 
Location: Holiday, FL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LargeKingCat View Post
Sumerian culture was from about 4000 BCE
Jewish texts were recorded in wiring around 1000 BCE under King David. Jews were polytheistic until about 1300 BC so the Genesis Myth did not become popular until well after the monotheistic age, making Sumerian mythology much older than Jewish mythology.
Sumerian culture goes back far beyond 4,000 BC. Take a look at the "KING LIST". Do the math. Eight kings ruled from five cities, for some 441,000 years before the flood. If the longevity is to be believed. I find a king ruling for 26,000 years a bit hard to swallow. I'm thinking that descendents of the appointed king extended the reign, but the clay tablets do not say that, and the Bible does talk about people that lived nearly a thousand years. Perhaps, the Hebrews got that wrong as well? Did they actually live well over a thousand years?

And, I'm very surprised that an "Israeli" team of Archaeologists released a finding of human teeth more than 440,000 years old because it would seem to conflict with the time that Biblical Scholars insist was the time of Creation. Yet, it would seem to support the KING LIST of Ancient Sumer. After the flood, the Sumerian version shows that the lifespan of humans shortened down to what we consider normal today. If the lifespan after the flood can be believed to be accurate, wouldn't that also lend some credibility to the lifespans before the flood?

It also seems that while AN, ENKI, and ENLIL were the prime deities, Sumer prospered. When the TRIAD lost favor to Dumuzi, they began to get conquered by neighboring kingdoms.

Other Archaeological finds suggest that as late as 800 BC, the Jews believed in GOD and his WIFE, named Asherah. Somewhere between 800 BC and the writing of the Dead Sea Scrolls, GOD must have gotten a divorce, because GOD's wife is no longer mentioned.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:53 AM
 
Location: Holiday, FL
1,571 posts, read 2,000,890 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
How many of the original documents do you have for those religions? The Bible tells the story of the first man and woman that ever existed. By that alone, we know that no other culture existed prior to them.

Of course, you really have no proof to prove otherwise...except your skepticism.
Now, can you tell us what religion Adam and Eve practiced? Because they were not Hebrew or Jewish.
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:26 AM
 
Location: New York City
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I really hope Vizio is reading up on the pertinent extensive information and not just reading the bible to prove the bible. That NEVER, EVER works out too well.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,094,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
How so? Is there any reason to doubt the historicity of the Bible?

Anything that is written, selected and voted upon for consensus among men for men ALWAYS has to have it's authenticity and historical accuracy questioned.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Texas
5,872 posts, read 8,094,294 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLASTED View Post
THis is plain wrong. The concept of the Trinity is recorded right in the beginning of the Bible all the way throughout. There is one God made up of three parts. The Jews always worshipped the one God.
The concept of the Trinity was cemented...after May 325 A.D.

And the Jews worshiped one God, after 1100 B.C.

Welcome to reality.
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Old 03-14-2013, 08:18 AM
 
Location: Deep Dirty South
5,189 posts, read 5,336,773 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio View Post
You know this how?
Simply by being acquainted with history and the timelines of various peoples. Again, nothing supernatural about it. Take off your blinders, do away with as much of your bias, opinion and ingrained cultural mileu as possible and you can see it for yourself.

Or, you can cling to your very weak, brittle faith, run to some dark corner, cower and say "that's not bibical so it can't be right! The Bible is definitive and inerrant" or some such groundless, infantile nonsense.
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