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Nothing more to say that isn't in the title except that I have a cousin who is being baptized this Saturday (she's 7th Day Adventist), and I'm agnostic therefore I need help understanding the purpose of this and when it should be done. I asked her tonight and she really couldn't give me a clear answer solely because she feels as if I can't understand it because I'm agnostic, but she pretty much said that being baptized is essentially solidifying your bond with God/Jesus and fully accepting him as your savior. I was always led to believe that you were baptized when you're ready to give up a sinful life, but I guess not? And also, what's the difference between being saved and baptized? I was saved as a kid, but as I said before I'm agnostic now.
Nothing more to say that isn't in the title except that I have a cousin who is being baptized this Saturday (she's 7th Day Adventist), and I'm agnostic therefore I need help understanding the purpose of this and when it should be done. I asked her tonight and she really couldn't give me a clear answer solely because she feels as if I can't understand it because I'm agnostic, but she pretty much said that being baptized is essentially solidifying your bond with God/Jesus and fully accepting him as your savior. I was always led to believe that you were baptized when you're ready to give up a sinful life, but I guess not? And also, what's the difference between being saved and baptized? I was saved as a kid, but as I said before I'm agnostic now.
Thank you in advance for your replies!
Good to hear that you have found clear understanding my friend!
Baptism is a RITUAL, which always soothes the ritual partakers who find it soothing.
Think of it as a "right of passage" ritual or "bar'mitzva."
Protestants used to think that Baptism was supposed to be a genuine change into real and solid Christianity, but I guess to get more "money from people" they needed to loosen up the standards.
The ink idol which Christians often worship as God's manifestation on Earth says that without Baptism by Water and Spirit there is no getting into heaven, so that is why they do it. Baptism was supposed to be a sort of "cleansing/fusion" ritual which was only to be done once, Catholic Christians therefore had Babies baptised so that the babies had a better chance to get into heaven if they died early. Protestants thought that one could only accept the "Spirit and Baptism" if one is conscious of it and "actually intents to remain pure" but it seems jesus is not powerful enough to really cleanse them until they "are reincarnated into a perfected body" which is why they now see Baptism as simply a "right of passage" ritual.
You will find that they barely understand it themselves, its more of an emotional thing, so it doesn't need to be backed up by reason because the "reasoning" might actually destroy the entire emotional practice.
Baptism is your public profession of faith. When you admit your sins, repent of your sins, ask God's forgiveness of your sins, and believe that Jesus has paid the price for your sins by His sacrifice, and has defeated death by His resurrection, and can redeem His promise to you of eternal life, and accept His lordship in your life, then you are saved. That may all be done in private with no one else around other than God. Jesus has instructed us to make a public declaration of our belief in Him and His promises by the symbolic act of Baptism in the presence of other people. Since He has asked us to do this, we should do it. Baptism doesn't save you; you should be saved before Baptism or the Baptism is meaningless (with apologies to my brothers and sisters in other denominations that believe otherwise). Baptism doesn't mean that we will no longer sin. We will sin as long as we live in this mortal world, but by repentance we vow to resist sin. We won't always succeed. Perfection is a direction in which we travel, not a destination that we can reach, at least not in this life.
As LT stated quite eloquently, it is a ritual that really does nothing. According to scrips you are supposed to bury the "old man" and rise up anew which never happens. The idea it is symbolic of the death, burial and resurrection of jesus.
These days it is merely club membership. Until you get baptised they will not stop nagging you to get it done.
This of course brings to question the debate they cannot agree upon where jesus (allegedly) says to the one one robber being crucified with him, "Today you shell be with me in paradise" According to scrips, Jesus never baptised anyone but his disciples apparently did.
The evangelicals will claim that full immersion is required. Some even argue one or three dunks. Other infer that the churches that sprinkle is derivative of Baal worship where blood was sprinkled on worshippers so that places about 1M Catholics in the pigeon hole of apostates - ironic huh, seeing they invented the religion.
The biggest problem in churches with baptismal tubs/baths is they all tend to leak
The CoC folk will try and get you dunked asap after you have done the sinner's prayer ritual.
In the end, the same dude(tte) comes out of the water/sprinkling just a tad more wet. They of course blame this on the other dude in the red suit with the pitchfork and pointy tail.
But wait there's more....
Even after the whetting process, unless you are baptised in the holy spirit Moderator cut: deleted as offensive speaking in tongues) you are not really "saved" [Some attribute this to the devil himself, poor red dude, gets all the blame]
So now you are saved right? WRONG!
You see this is where the whole doctrine of works and grace collides, both are supported in contradictory statements in the bible. The "saved by grace" folk vs. the "saved by works" folk have lively debates who is right. If you side with the works folk but refuse the rituals, you are still going to hell. If you side with the grace folks but refuse the rituals, you are going to hell. It really is quite logical if you really think about it (smoked up on weed)
The good works folk suggest charity but usually defer this to the body by tithing and do it via proxy. The grace folks feel no need for good works and usually are involved with church activities which are their "good works". It really boils down to having you occupied as much as possible with irrelevant stuff that detract from real life issues like family and friends.
In the end, 99% of them do it simply out of tradition and never read their bibles. You probably will not differentiated them from atheists in the public square.
In the particular branch of evanglicalism in which I was raised, if you didn't get baptized you just weren't particularly sincere in the faith. Baptism was one of the few church ideas I resisted / evaded and found totally absurd. I finally caved in my early 20's when I attended a church that rode that hobby horse a bit more, but still managed to evade making some kind of glowing public statement of what a wonderful experience it was. Testimony time was something else I didn't much care for. It drove home how deeply unsatisfactory my experience in the faith was, that I really had nothing genuine to say in its favor, and at the time I was not quite ready to admit that.
So, if you are baptized as a youth but you grow up and become an agnostic or atheist do you still retain that baptism? I.E. are you still accepted by the eyes of God as one of his or is it a contract you can get out of?
So, if you are baptized as a youth but you grow up and become an agnostic or atheist do you still retain that baptism? I.E. are you still accepted by the eyes of God as one of his or is it a contract you can get out of?
That depends on the doctrines embraced. OSAS or OSHS. Some folk take this seriously and get unbaptised which is rather silly. Both camps will tell you if you turn your back on the faith, you are destined to their imaginary hell. I was baptised twice. I tossed the immersion one with certificate awhile ago and today found the original one by sprinkling. That is now in the rubbish where it belongs too. Dunno why my late wife was hanging onto it.
That depends on the doctrines embraced. OSAS or OSHS. Some folk take this seriously and get unbaptised which is rather silly. Both camps will tell you if you turn your back on the faith, you are destined to their imaginary hell. I was baptised twice. I tossed the immersion one with certificate awhile ago and today found the original one by sprinkling. That is now in the rubbish where it belongs too. Dunno why my late wife was hanging onto it.
probably because its cute. a little baby degree in having gone through ritual of sprinkling.
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