How can a benevolent God allow the Holocaust? (hell, atheist, bible)
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As Karen Armstrong states in "A History of God" in discussing the Holocaust and its affect on many Jews..."If this God is omnipotent, he could have prevented the Holocaust. If he was unable to stop it, he is impotent and useless. If he could have stopped it and chose not to, he is a monster.
So those of you believe your God is only good, what possible reason was there for your God to allow the Holocaust to happen?
As Karen Armstrong states in "A History of God" in discussing the Holocaust and its affect on many Jews..."If this God is omnipotent, he could have prevented the Holocaust. If he was unable to stop it, he is impotent and useless. If he could have stopped it and chose not to, he is a monster.
So those of you believe your God is only good, what possible reason was there for your God to allow the Holocaust to happen?
I hope you realize you are not the first person to post the age old "problem" of the all loving god, who allows evil to occur.
One example and you can find many more on this and ther Boards:
The problem with this bit of logic is that it's premise is false. Anyone who has read the Bible will quickly realize that God is only good (omnibenevolent). Usually this line of reasoning is meant to convince a theist that:
A. God does not exist or
B. God is weak or evil
Falls flat, because disagreeable behavior on the part of God has no bearing on whether He exists. Secondly, part of being all powerful means one is not obliged to follow a course of action (stop the evil actions of humans) As far as God being evil, well since I don't know the reason why God allows evil, one can only speculate. God is who He is. He may not fit the human definition of all good. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
One needs to consider whether God exists and if so, what does it all mean. I will say this: were it not for the Holocaust, the modern State of Israel would likely not exist.
The problem with this bit of logic is that it's premise is false. Anyone who has read the Bible will quickly realize that God is only good (omnibenevolent). Usually this line of reasoning is meant to convince a theist that:
A. God does not exist or
B. God is weak or evil
Falls flat, because disagreeable behavior on the part of God has no bearing on whether He exists. Secondly, part of being all powerful means one is not obliged to follow a course of action (stop the evil actions of humans) As far as God being evil, well since I don't know the reason why God allows evil, one can only speculate. God is who He is. He may not fit the human definition of all good. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
One needs to consider whether God exists and if so, what does it all mean. I will say this: were it not for the Holocaust, the modern State of Israel would likely not exist.
So how does this answer the question of why the Holocaust was allowed to occur?
So how does this answer the question of why the Holocaust was allowed to occur?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
One needs to consider whether God exists and if so, what does it all mean. I will say this: were it not for the Holocaust, the modern State of Israel would likely not exist.
Well that's not entirely correct since most of the Jews who were there were from pre-WW2. And the largest influx of Jews came from N. Africa and the Arab countries to the east of Israel after 1948. Most of those Jews were unaffected by the Holocaust. The influx of Jews from Europe was around 150k. While by the signing of the Armistice in 1949 there were nearly 1.2 Million Jews.
So maybe G_d chose which Jews were on the correct path and which were not. And it may seem the Europeans (Ashkenazi) may not have been.
So those of you believe your God is only good, what possible reason was there for your God to allow the Holocaust to happen?
I've heard on many occasions Christians state, when posed with this same question, that God allowed the Holocaust to occur as punishment to the Jews for turning their backs on His Son, the Lord Jesus Christ.
Personally, I put about as much stock into that explanation as I do when Christians say that Hurricane Katrina was sent as God's wrath to New Orleans.
As Karen Armstrong states in "A History of God" in discussing the Holocaust and its affect on many Jews..."If this God is omnipotent, he could have prevented the Holocaust. If he was unable to stop it, he is impotent and useless. If he could have stopped it and chose not to, he is a monster.
So those of you believe your God is only good, what possible reason was there for your God to allow the Holocaust to happen?
Other genocides have occurred since the Jewish Holocaust. One occurred in Southeast Asia in Cambodia circa the Vietnam War. The last occurred, probably, in Rwanda in Africa.
To me, if God exists one must accept God on God's own terms. "Must" in terms of the consequences if one does not.
So, I really see no reason in getting into all of these "but horrible suffering happens, so, why obey or praise God when you can rebel against God as a 'monster' and burn eternally in hell."
Imagine living in the territory that is now the United States with no government and no jails and prisons. You live as you wish. You want to smoke marijuana then you do. No cops or jails to throw you in. You're 44 and an attractive 14 year old girl wants to have sex with you? You and her have sex. Only her and her loved ones do you need to be concerned about. No "Land of the Free" to tax, regulate, and incarcerate you.
But we live in a United States that does have a government, laws, tax system, and jails. And every year more and more laws get created in the United States. Almost anything you do can land you in jail or in probation or fined and/or given a "record" for something. The Federal Government spies on its citizens. Cameras watch our every move increasingly on public streets.
But this is the way it is. And government's unlike God can't sentence you for eternity. Punishment from governments is only temporary. But that temporary punishment is enough to inspire obedience, fear, and praise from most citizens. So, it stands to reason to me I ought obey and fear God even that much more.
I truly believe wisdom begins with fear of God. (I'm sure that does not appeal to most people's egos though.)
The problem with this bit of logic is that it's premise is false. Anyone who has read the Bible will quickly realize that God isnot only good (omnibenevolent). Usually this line of reasoning is meant to convince a theist that:
A. God does not exist or
B. God is weak or evil
Falls flat, because disagreeable behavior on the part of God has no bearing on whether He exists. Secondly, part of being all powerful means one is not obliged to follow a course of action (stop the evil actions of humans) As far as God being evil, well since I don't know the reason why God allows evil, one can only speculate. God is who He is. He may not fit the human definition of all good. But everyone is entitled to their opinion.
One needs to consider whether God exists and if so, what does it all mean. I will say this: were it not for the Holocaust, the modern State of Israel would likely not exist.
Ugh...Of all the words to leave out. Meant to say NOT only good.
As Karen Armstrong states in "A History of God" in discussing the Holocaust and its affect on many Jews..."If this God is omnipotent, he could have prevented the Holocaust. If he was unable to stop it, he is impotent and useless. If he could have stopped it and chose not to, he is a monster.
So those of you believe your God is only good, what possible reason was there for your God to allow the Holocaust to happen?
Well, what do the atheists think of their utopia alternative during the same time with Stalin's affect on many Russians was occuring?
I see that if the atheist alternative model had its way in Germany, an addition 18-56 million more Jews would have been Holocaust'ed.
So I'd say that our God was way more powerful in limiting the evil done than the atheist delusional utopia.
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