Why do we have so many religions? (believers, heaven, verse)
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No one can really prove or disprove the existence of A god. We're simply not knowledgeable enough about what exists out there in the vast, perhaps infinite cosmos. >>>Shirina
That is a true statement! The only reality I can add to that is within my own life's experience. God is alive and well in my life!
However, religious believers make a leap -- and it's not a leap of faith. This leap says, "Because there might be a god, I'm going to believe there is one. Plus, I'm going to believe this god is a specific god, my God, the God of the religion I was indoctrinated into.">>>Shirina
"Leap of faith" is like stepping off a ledge and believing the angels would save you.
But before the leap, there must first be faith.
There is this story, don't know who wrote it but it goes something like this:
There was a tight rope walker who stretched a line across Niagara Falls and invited a crowd to test him.
He asked "do you all believe I can wheel this wheel barrel across the falls and back"? Some said yes, and some were skeptical.
Well, he crossed it and returned safely.
Again, he asked, but this time he tested the crowd. This time by asking, "now do you all believe I can carry a person in the wheel barrel across and back safely"?
And with a resounding in unison chant, "yes, yes"!
OK, he said, do I have a volunteer?
You see, the information is presented, be it a story or an actual event, faith is still the issue.
For believers, the story more so than the actual events are taken in faith. And by that faith the leap is taken.
Lets look at your point: before there can be any "big bank theory", there must first be a substance to arrive at that any conclusion..
Substance than; is the created issue.Who done it? Can neither be proved or disproved simply because it is beyond our means.
Who..... than still remains the most logical conclusion.
And because it is beyond the realm of science, but not in the spiritual realm of our existence, the spiritual supersedes the physical.
To prove that point, take the spirit out of the body and what will you have left? Nothing but earth.
So, very obviously, there it is, undeniable conclusion confirmed by the Patriarchs, the Prophets, the scribes and by Jesus.
The question real is now, is to what degree we want to credit them for the information given to us as real?
There is absolutely, no loss in believing in God! But, based on my experience, there is a terrible loss not to believe in God.
Its like: taking a picture in black and white. The picture is still there but with no vivid colors to add beauty, tone and clarity. We can say then, that THERE IS A LOSS.
While a picture taken in color not only has all the above, but adds life, reality and truthfulness.
Blessings, AJ
So, basically, you believe in god just in case there is one.
Is it not, by the very nature you described, reason enough to conclude that all came about with no prescribed originator, or was it all just spontaneous?
The BBT has more evidence than any postulation of a god.
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Can anything spontaneous happen without first having being created?
Yes
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Can a seed create itself spontaneously or must it first have being created?
Chicken egg analogy. You are assuming spontaneity as an event like you instapoof belief in creation. Your thinking is wrong.
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If so, by whom? What....Spontaneous combustion all of a sudden had an intelligence?
You are looking for a cause, science is happy to admit they do not know. Plugging god into the answer to those questions actually is no answer at all.
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Confining all questions for answers in the sciences will only grant answers limited to knowledge of discovery.
But it is far superior to anything religionists have to offer. Nothing offered is testable unless you choose to drink he koolaid
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Beyond the sciences, is the spiritual world. We are children of a marriage of both. Spirit and body.
Prove spiritual.
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Therefore, answers not forthcoming in the sciences, are given to belief by faith, in what has being given to us in a form of patriarchs, prophets, scribes and at the last, by Jesus.
I know what believer believe and why, their beliefs is based on infantile thinking.
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So, it is much a matter of choice, "Choose this day who you will follow".
I follow no one, not even any atheist guru.
You really did not address anything I posted but pretty much proved my assertion that humans tend to look for patterns where none exist or have rational scientific explanations. You then enter a world of make believe and then expect someone to disprove that imaginary world. We simply say that is imaginary or a product of your own mind's creation, IOW it does not exist except between your ears.
Let's say you go through life being kicked in the stomach. You make a religion centering around not getting kicked in the stomach. It's called Ithutrz or something.
Don't believe me? Let's look at Islam.
Muhammed was a violent fanatic who had control freak issues, and issues with women. Guess what? All his followers did too.
Jesus grew up under Jewish leaders who made up absurd laws from everything from what to do on the Sabbath to what to sacrifice. And under Roman rule. He wanted some peaceloving religion that cut the crap and went straight to what Judaism was all about. So Christianity came about.
Then you have Jainism. The leader (forget his name) studied under nudists. AAlong with extreme pacifism, there are "sky-clad" Jains.
I could go on.
It's not so much that they "don't know what they're talking about" (the same could be said of Dawkins). It's that they all know what they're talking about. From their perspective.
I know what believer believe and why, their beliefs is based on infantile thinking.
I know why you feel as you do, Seeker. It is justified . . . but as I have had to learn here . . . the use of adjectives like "infantile" are unnecessarily pejorative.
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I follow no one, not even any atheist guru.
You really did not address anything I posted but pretty much proved my assertion that humans tend to look for patterns where none exist or have rational scientific explanations. You then enter a world of make believe and then expect someone to disprove that imaginary world. We simply say that is imaginary or a product of your own mind's creation, IOW it does not exist except between your ears.
I know that you do not yet believe that what we create "between our ears" is part of reality in substantive and tangible ways, Seeker. But in my view . . . it IS what really matters in the end.
It is justified . . . but as I have had to learn here . . . the use of adjectives like "infantile" are unnecessarily pejorative.
OK, use childish instead of infantile. Your bible even suggests childlike belief/acceptance is some kind of "fine" or required attribute.
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I know that you do not yet believe that what we create "between our ears" is part of reality in substantive and tangible ways, Seeker. But in my view . . . it IS what really matters in the end.
Substance than; is the created issue.Who done it? Can neither be proved or disproved simply because it is beyond our means.
There doesn't necessarily have to be a "substance" that banged to create the universe. There isn't even any proof that "nothingness" can even exist.
But to ask "who done it" is a loaded question because it presupposes a "who" as the first cause.
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And because it is beyond the realm of science, but not in the spiritual realm of our existence, the spiritual supersedes the physical.
I've always found this sort of reasoning rather disingenous. In effect, it is moving the goal posts. Many Christians have no qualms about using science to disprove science (a laughable endeavor) but only when they think they have a 'leg up' on non-believers.
But when science turns up nothing, no evidence, no proof, for the existence of Yahweh/Jehova/God, Christians simply move the point of contention into the "spiritual realm" where science supposedly can't reach. It's just a tactic that tries to affirm that the lack of evidence IS the evidence ... a tactic that could be applied to anything. The result is that we would have to admit nothing is impossible, ergo, we have to believe in everything.
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There is absolutely, no loss in believing in God! But, based on my experience, there is a terrible loss not to believe in God.
Ah, Pascal's Wager. You do realize that your statement above is a logical fallacy, namely the "False Dilemma" fallacy. You assume that there are only two choices: Believe in your specific God or believe in no gods. The fallacy occurs because there are, in fact, thousands of gods we could theoretically believe in.
Your belief in God (I assume your God is the God of the Bible) does not protect you. This is because the God you believe in may not be the correct God. When you die, you might find yourself trying to explain to Allah why you aren't a Muslim. Or you might find yourself reincarnated by Ganesh as a dung beetle because you failed to seek Nirvana through Hindusim.
The point is simple: You take just as much of a risk believing in your specific God as I do in not believing.
There doesn't necessarily have to be a "substance" that banged to create the universe. There isn't even any proof that "nothingness" can even exist. >>>Shirina
It does exist! That's proof that there is substance to conclude, by simple measure, that there must be a creator.
Otherwise, one would be denying one's own ability to think rationally, and in simple logic, a conclusion.
It is very evident over the course of human history of mankind's attempts to recognize an unknown entity, relating to their existence, who is higher than themselves and assigning to it a name, an object, an animal or anything in the heavens.
Then there are those who simply can not come to grips with a creator for whatever reason.
Blessings, AJ
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