Some Reflections on the Christian god, and Some Honest Questions About Him (quote, Biblical)
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If your "holy" book is the arbiter of all things right - I'm quite content to be wrong.
I'm going to tell you how I feel about you TroutDude...I think you are a good person. I also think you believe religion, and the Bible go together. If that were the case, I would feel as you do.
Religions are not from God, and I could back that statement up with 1,000 reasons. Religions are from, and controlled by Satan. They are designed to turn people away from God.
If Jesus came into your house, and proved to you he was the son of God...I would bet my life you would follow him...that makes you a good guy. I believe all you need is proof. Am I right, or am I wrong?
Domenic
You said this..."I'm with Miss Blue. I get closer to God by getting close with Nature.
I'm going to tell you how I feel about you TroutDude...I think you are a good person.
You got one right!
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I also think you believe religion, and the Bible go together.
And one wrong.
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Religions are not from God, and I could back that statement up with 1,000 reasons.
Another one right!
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Religions are from, and controlled by Satan. They are designed to turn people away from God.
And another wrong.
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If Jesus came into your house, and proved to you he was the son of God...I would bet my life you would follow him.
High stakes indeed. I might, if he convinced me his old man was really God. But the Jesus written about in your holy book didn't present much of a case, IMO.
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..that makes you a good guy.
I though we already established that?
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I believe all you need is proof. Am I right, or am I wrong?
Proof that Jesus is God? Yes, I would require that.
Proof there is a God/Creator?
I don't need that. I already believe.
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You said this..."I'm with Miss Blue. I get closer to God by getting close with Nature.
I never felt similarly in a church."
You get ten stars for that. **********
I hope you saved a few for Miss Blue. She is wise.
You have this wrong...Jesus is not God, he is the son of God.
On your next walk in the woods, note this;
The trees need what you exhale to live. You need what they exhale to live. All things are connected on this earth. It is all designed to work together. It can not be by chance.
The other night I was out, and about. There is a very small layer around this earth. Outside of that is a vacuum. Everything in space is in a vacuum...yet it all stays in place. All things are made with atoms. Man can split one, but he can't make one.
Religions claim to be from God...it is simple to prove they are not...It can be done using their own Bible.
You wouldn't be a Jehovah's Witness by any chance? I ask because your responses regarding eternal torment sound very much like their doctrine of "soul sleep."
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Originally Posted by cupper3
SDA theology also believes in 'soul sleep'.
Hello Hyker and Cupper3, what the Bible terms a soul is what Witnesses believe. I can't speak about SDA doctrine/beliefs. The term "soul sleep" can mean different things to different people depending on their understanding of what constitutes a soul. But the Bible uses the term soul in referring to the whole being, the whole person, or life.
Genesis 2:7, 1;20,24; Job 33;22 and Romans 13:20 all refer to souls as the whole living creature or the life a person enjoys. When some people think of soul they may think about an immortal soul or a part of us that survives death (this is a common belief not just among Christian faiths). Witnesses do not believe in an immortal soul or that a part of us survives death based on what the Bible states so in that respect I don't believe "soul sleep" would be an accurate description because it implies something of us survives death (whether in a sleep or inert state or otherwise).
I believe what confuses people is interpreting certain scriptures that imply something of us remains after death..Genesis 35:18, 1 Peter 3:18-20 but that's where the the action of letting scripture interpret scripture is most applicable and it's a principle that aids all sorts of people including Bible scholars (yet not all apply it). The principle itself makes sense...look at the context of the scripture, look at the scripture in context of the entire Scriptures and look at scriptures that are clear, explicit and unambiguous on that subject to understand the meaning of scriptures that are ambiguous or appear contradictory.
More to the question of the OP...It's difficult for people to let go of what they think about the Christian God based on what they have been taught or have heard or think the Bible says because it would require them to rethink a whole range of deep and sincerely held beliefs about who God really is, what is hell, eternal torment, what happens when we die, etc (not an easy thing to do) But many people such as myself have been able to.
Originally Posted by thrillobyte The RCC and Calvin/Luther have really done a number on people, haven't they? After all, it was they who conceived this ridiculous notion of Jesus and the saints watching in glee from heaven as billions of people burn in hell, and chanting and praising the "Lamb" as they burn singing, "It is justice for you, O Lord, to punish our sons and daughters and parents and loved ones with fire and torment for eternity because they rejected you." Made me want to vomit just typing that last part out. Sick, SICK tripe.
I agree, what thrillobyte posted is sick...that is not from the Bible...where is that sick stuff from?
I think it's hinted at in Revelation, but was taken up with gusto by church leaders:
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[LEFT]Peter Lombard, the Master of Sentences “Therefore the elect shall go forth…to see the torments of the impious, seeing which they will not be grieved, but will be satiated with joy at the sight of the unutterable calamity of the impious .” Sent. Iv 50, ad fin Martin Luther
When questioned whether the Blessed will not be saddened by seeing their nearest and dearest tortured answers, “Not in the least.” Gerhard “…the Blessed will see their friends and relations among the damned as often as they like but without the least of compassion.” Andrew Welwood
(speaks of the saints as being) “overjoyed in beholding the vengeance of God ,” and their beholding of the smoke of the torment of the wicked as “a passing delectation.” Samuel Hopkins “This display of the divine character will be most entertaining to all who love God, will give them the highest and most ineffable pleasure. Should the fire of this eternal punishment cease, it would in a great measure obscure the light of heaven, and put an end to a great part of the happiness and glory of the blessed.” Bishop Newcomb“The door of mercy will be shut and all bowels of compassion denied, by God, who will laugh at their destruction; by angels and saints, who will rejoice when they see the vengeance' by their fellow-suffer the devil and the damned rejoicing over their misery.” Catechetical Sermons Tertullian “At that greatest of all spectacles, that last and eternal judgment how shall I admire, how laugh, how rejoice, how exult, when I behold so many proud monarchs groaning in the lowest abyss of darkness; so many magistrates liquefying in fiercer flames than they ever kindled against the Christians; so many sages philosophers blushing in red-hot fires with their deluded pupils; so many tragedians more tuneful in the expression of their own sufferings; so many dancers tripping more nimbly from anguish then ever before from applause." “What a spectacle. . .when the world. . .and its many products, shall be consumed in one great flame! How vast a spectacle then bursts upon the eye! What there excites my admiration? What my derision? Which sight gives me joy? As I see. . .illustrious monarchs. . . groaning in the lowest darkness, Philosophers. . .as fire consumes them! Poets trembling before the judgment-seat of. . .Christ! I shall hear the tragedians, louder-voiced in their own calamity; view play-actors. . .in the dissolving flame; behold wrestlers, not in their gymnasia, but tossing in the fiery billows. . .What inquisitor or priest in his munificence will bestow on you the favor of seeing and exulting in such things as these? Yet even now we in a measure have them by faith in the picturings of imagination.” [De Spectaculis, Chapter XXX]
What is it to say that one group of people were created to experience eternal bliss, and one group of people were created to face eternal torment?
What is it to say that we go to heaven by accepting Jesus as our lord and savior, when accepting Jesus as lord requires BELIEVING that he is lord? Why is BELIEVING something the important thing? Humans are terrible at knowing what to believe. Why is salvation from eternal torment contingent on believing a certain thing? Even if it is ultimately spiritual regeneration that insures salvation, regeneration depends on belief. What human parent would put his children in such a position? Who among us would allow our children to burn in hell for any reason, let alone for failing to believe a collection of facts.
What is it for God to empathize? If he can empathize with me, how can he allow me to go to eternal torment? He would be empathizing with me for eternity as I burned. What would that be like for him? Knowing that I, his son, am burning in hell for eternity must be miserable for him.
If God's love "casts out fear," why are some people who aren't Christians full of love and empty of fear, while some who are Christians are full of fear an empty of love?
Who is God, really?
What is he really like?
And if he's the god of the Christian faith, is he worth worshiping?
YHWH is the God Moses invented. YHWH is INCREDIBLY evil, murderous, genocidal, insanely jealous...etc....Moses made it a law that no other God was allowed to be taught amongst the Jews, so YHWH ends up taking credit for all things good. Then Jesus came along. He made the commandment that everyone MUST love YHWH with all our hearts and minds, then Jesus performed miracles on YHWH's behalf. So now, Christians give YHWH credit for everything, and associate him with creation and love, even though YHWH is openly, unrepentantly evil, murderous, genocidal...etc...
YHWH is the God Moses invented. YHWH is INCREDIBLY evil, murderous, genocidal, insanely jealous...etc....Moses made it a law that no other God was allowed to be taught amongst the Jews, so YHWH ends up taking credit for all things good. Then Jesus came along. He made the commandment that everyone MUST love YHWH with all our hearts and minds, then Jesus performed miracles on YHWH's behalf. So now, Christians give YHWH credit for everything, and associate him with creation and love, even though YHWH is openly, unrepentantly evil, murderous, genocidal...etc...
If Moses is proved to be a myth then he couldn't have invented anything. If the entire Exodus could not produce once iota of evidence of 4 million people wandering in Sinai for forty years then that also is mythology.
It then stands to reason that Yahweh is no more than one of hundreds of mythical deities circulating around the Middle east in the first 4000 years of recorded history that was created by an indigenous tribe of nomadic Hebrews in search of a country to occupy, spotted Canaan and tried to figure out a way to convince its people to have a moral prerogative to wipe them and other tribes occupying Canaan from the face of the earth in order to take it for themselves. Thus they wrote the Torah and Jews and Christians by extension got Yahweh.
If the Hebrews had lost the battle for Canaan we would all be Canaanites or something worshipping Ba'al.
It is the leaders of religions you speak who are fighting. As I have posted..."I follow no religion."
I also judge no one for sins against Gods laws...all humans are sinners. I am also human.
Evasive. I interpret it to mean you oppose SSM, just not because of any religious reasons.
Yes or no?
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