If God unconditionally loves all sinners, why all this talk of vengeance? (salvation, hell)
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If God said: I am so sorry that you have to go to hell. It's just my holiness and your sinfulness, they cannot coexist. And since you did not cover yourself with the redemptive blood of Christ, you cannot come into my presence... But my heart is breaking in two...
If he said that, then the belief that God loves sinners unconditionally may have been true.
But I hear something else instead. The old testament is filled with furious statements from God about how he is going to destroy the wicked and squash them like a bug (pretty much), about how he will make them eat their own flesh and other awful things. Does that sound like a person who loves you saying it? or the person who hates you?
Lev 26:23 "'If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me,
Lev 26:28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over.
Lev 26:29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.
Lev 26:30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you.
There is so much talk like this in the Old Testament. It's scary to read it. And it's all about those who did not obey or did not listen to God. Well, I guess God's love is conditional. He only loves those who listen and obey. He abhors the rest. Just like humans pretty much. Well, actually, we are trying to teach tolerance (tolerate those who don't listen to you and don't think like you). But I think that tolerance is against the Christians' teachings. It figures.
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you.'"
Rejoice over someone you love being punished? That's from God's perspective. And what about people? They have brothers/sisters and children and spouses and parents who don't believe the same (and are going to be "punished" supposedly). Should they rejoice when their child or beloved spouse are being punished?
Or does it sound like there is something wrong with this idea?
(And if God does say somewhere else in the Bible that he is sorry, then it still doesn't make sense... it's like two different people talking: one is sorry and the other one is happy to punish and abhors you)
Last edited by LoveWisdom; 06-10-2014 at 07:17 PM..
If God said: I am so sorry that you have to go to hell. It's just my holiness and your sinfulness, they cannot coexist. And since you did not cover yourself with the redemptive blood of Christ, you cannot come into my presence... But my heart is breaking in two...
Stopped reading after that.
And you want GOD to say sorry but you won't say sorry now and try to follow God's path?
If God said: I am so sorry that you have to go to hell. It's just my holiness and your sinfulness, they cannot coexist. And since you did not cover yourself with the redemptive blood of Christ, you cannot come into my presence... But my heart is breaking in two...
If he said that, then the belief that God loves sinners unconditionally may have been true.
But I hear something else instead. The old testament is filled with furious statements from God about how he is going to destroy the wicked and squash them like a bug (pretty much), about how he will make them eat their own flesh and other awful things. Does that sound like a person who loves you saying it? or the person who hates you?
Lev 26:23 "'If in spite of these things you do not accept my correction but continue to be hostile toward me,
Lev 26:28 then in my anger I will be hostile toward you, and I myself will punish you for your sins seven times over.
Lev 26:29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters.
Lev 26:30 I will destroy your high places, cut down your incense altars and pile your dead bodies on the lifeless forms of your idols, and I will abhor you.
There is so much talk like this in the Old Testament. It's scary to read it. And it's all about those who did not obey or did not listen to God. Well, I guess God's love is conditional. He only loves those who listen and obey. He abhors the rest. Just like humans pretty much. Well, actually, we are trying to teach tolerance (tolerate those who don't listen to you and don't think like you). But I think that tolerance is against the Christians' teachings. It figures.
Rev 18:20 Rejoice over her, O heaven! Rejoice, saints and apostles and prophets! God has judged her for the way she treated you.'"
Rejoice over someone you love being punished? That's from God's perspective. And what about people? They have brothers/sisters and children and spouses and parents who don't believe the same (and are going to be "punished" supposedly). Should they rejoice when their child or beloved spouse are being punished?
Really? The verse you quoted above (Rev.18:20) is not about a person but the city Babylon. You don't believe it is wrong for a human judge to give evil for evil but you think God is wrong to do that?
Quote:
Or does it sound like there is something wrong with this idea?
(And if God does say somewhere else in the Bible that he is sorry, then it still doesn't make sense... it's like two different people talking: one is sorry and the other one is happy to punish and abhors you)
God eventually is going to save all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6; 4:10). What He does within the scope of the eons is to correct people. That's a good thing.
Really? The verse you quoted above (Rev.18:20) is not about a person but the city Babylon. You don't believe it is wrong for a human judge to give evil for evil but you think God is wrong to do that?
My point was that God is HAPPY to punish and to avenge.
Sometimes you can punish but you could say: it hurts me more than it hurts you. That's love. But when you're happy to punish, that's you being unloving and selfish to say the least. And humans do act this way temporarily (when they punish). But one would expect a perfect God to be better than that.
God eventually is going to save all mankind (1 Tim.2:4-6; 4:10). What He does within the scope of the eons is to correct people. That's a good thing.
If God eventually is going to save all mankind, then it's not so bad, I agree. But not many Christians believe in this theory (the salvation for all theory)
If God eventually is going to save all mankind, then it's not so bad, I agree. But not many Christians believe in this theory (the salvation for all theory)
That is true not all believe in the truth of God saving all mankind. I am glad that its fulfillment is not based upon whether the majority believes it or not.
If God eventually is going to save all mankind, then it's not so bad, I agree. But not many Christians believe in this theory (the salvation for all theory)
God isn't going to save all men. The Bible clearly says that. Do you realize that God hates some people?
If God unconditionally loves all sinners, why all this talk of vengeance?
"You always hurt the one you love."--Spike Jones
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