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Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,925,051 times
Reputation: 4561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150
You need to understand about middle eastern culture in the BC days. Sorry that your 21st century, western ears are offended. I guess if I were to make a fake book about God, I sure as heck would clean up the parts that talk about sex and prostitution. (for something more racy-read the Song of Solomon)
My kids are 29 and 32. They know about sex. They know the Bible. When they were little and asked questions about sex, I was not afraid to tell them the Facts. By your post I wonder if you are comfortable talking to your little ones about such matters-assuming you have kids.
LOL... 5 grandkids. I started early.
I'm not offended at all. BTW, the Song of Solomon is actually one of the best literature in the whole bible. And it is not racy, it is one of the truly romantic verses written. If you see racy in it, I worry.
Again, hyperbole is something that the bible excels in.
Don't take it all literally... it's just an accumulation of stories enhanced to have a superstitious, wandering desert tribe look like the heroes.
Most of those stories existed far before they were usurped by the Israelis. Plagiarism at its best.
Again, there are 2 creation stories in Genesis. And the first story does NOT reflect monotheism, let alone "exalted" monotheism. Elohim is generally used as a plural group of gods (yes, polytheism) and is why it says "let US make man in OUR image". It borrows heavily from Caananite religion of El and his supreme council, the Elohim.
And, as we know, the facts are plain wrong scientifically, so no, there is nothing majestic about the Hebrew Creation myth as opposed to any others.
Sorry but the explanation for the "US" is found in the Bible and it's not the above.
As far as the" facts" being plain wrong scientifically I hope your interpretation of "facts" doesn't start with the thinking that Genesis refers to literal 24 hours because it doesn't...
The "let us make man in our image" is with the understanding that God created all things through his only begotten Son, Jesus. This is evident in Colossians 1:15,16, "15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him."
AND
John 1:3, "3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."
AND
Proverbs 8:22-30 and in relevant part states, "30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.
I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;I rejoiced before him all the time; 31 I rejoiced over his habitable earth,And I was especially fond of the sons of men"
Since Jesus is the image of God and the rest of creation was created through him it follows that when God spoke the words found in Genesis it was evidently Jesus, in prehumen existence, at his side.
You need to understand about middle eastern culture in the BC days. Sorry that your 21st century, western ears are offended. I guess if I were to make a fake book about God, I sure as heck would clean up the parts that talk about sex and prostitution. (for something more racy-read the Song of Solomon)
My kids are 29 and 32. They know about sex. They know the Bible. When they were little and asked questions about sex, I was not afraid to tell them the Facts. By your post I wonder if you are comfortable talking to your little ones about such matters-assuming you have kids.
There is absolutely no way that "Christians" would allow any other book around their children that has the sexual and violent content that the Bible contains.
This has nothing to do with telling your children about the birds and the bees or God for that matter.
The fact of the matter is that comments about penis size and volume of ejaculate probably don't belong in books made available to children no matter what the source.
Sorry but the explanation for the "US" is found in the Bible and it's not the above.
As far as the" facts" being plain wrong scientifically I hope your interpretation of "facts" doesn't start with the thinking that Genesis refers to literal 24 hours because it doesn't...
The "let us make man in our image" is with the understanding that God created all things through his only begotten Son, Jesus. This is evident in Colossians 1:15,16, "15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation; 16 because by means of him all other things were created in the heavens and on the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All other things have been created through him and for him."
AND
John 1:3, "3 All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence."
AND
Proverbs 8:22-30 and in relevant part states, "30 Then I was beside him as a master worker.
I was the one he was especially fond of day by day;I rejoiced before him all the time; 31 I rejoiced over his habitable earth,And I was especially fond of the sons of men"
Since Jesus is the image of God and the rest of creation was created through him it follows that when God spoke the words found in Genesis it was evidently Jesus, in prehumen existence, at his side.
There's only one Almighty God
Apparently there were other gods originally, of which YHWH was just the tribal god of the hebrews. Then he became top god, and all the others were less than he was and in the end they were all false gods who did not even exist.
And Jesus is not mentioned at all. There is a messiah designated by God. In fact anyone anointed as a King or High Priest was a messiah, but David seems to have ushered in another kind of anointing, the order of Melchizedek ,without actually using oil, or anything but the claim that God said 'This is my anointed; I approve of him'.
Several of the old Hebrews seem to have ascended to sit with God. Abraham, Elijah, Moses and no doubt David, too.
While Jesus was no doubt using the idea that the spirit of God had descended on him appointing him Messiah and Son of David, through divine approval rather than any genealogical link, the idea that the Holy spirit made Jesus God rather than a messiah that God was driving was a Christian idea.
Paul argued that Jesus was a spiritual messiah making 'Son of David' on earth (according to the flesh) and he seems to have related that not only to the spirit of David, but the spirit of Adam, who also was sitting at the rather packed right hand of the father. Jesus' messianic spirit had come to redeem humans from sin by obedience to god, thus undoing the sin brought about by Adams' disobedience.
This is the thesis set out in Romans, and in no way would he have accepted the idea that this made him God or creator. Thus, when God created everything, Adam, Abraham, David and Jesus did not yet exist. Made in the image of God does not in any way translate as 'made to float at the side of God to watch him make everything'.
The Origins of Biblical Monotheism: Israel's Polytheistic Background and the Ugaritic Texts
by Mark S. Smith
The Early History of God: Yahweh and the Other Deities in Ancient Israel (Biblical Resource Series)
by Mark S. Smith
Did God Have a Wife?: Archaeology and Folk Religion in Ancient Israel
by William G. Dever
The Messiah Myth: The Near Eastern Roots of Jesus and David
Since the eighteenth century, scholars and historians studying the texts of the Bible have attempted to distill historical facts and biography from the mythology and miracles described there. That trend continues into the present day, as scholars such as those of the "Jesus Seminar" dissect the Gospels and other early Christian writings to separate the "Jesus of history" from the "Christ of faith." But with The Messiah Myth, noted Biblical scholar Thomas L. Thompson argues that the quest for the historical Jesus is beside the point, since the Jesus of the Gospels never existed.Like King David before him, says Thompson, the Jesus of the Bible is an amalgamation of themes from Near Eastern mythology and traditions of kingship and divinity. The theme of a messiah-a divinely appointed king who restores the world to perfection-is typical of Egyptian and Babylonian royal ideology dating back to the Bronze Age. In Thompson's view, the contemporary audience for whom the Old and New Testament were written would naturally have interpreted David and Jesus not as historical figures, but as metaphors embodying long-established messianic traditions. Challenging widely held assumptions about the sources of the Bible and the quest for the historical Jesus, The Messiah Myth is sure to spark interest and heated debate.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,925,051 times
Reputation: 4561
Quote:
Originally Posted by hd4me
................................
Since Jesus is the image of God and the rest of creation was created through him it follows that when God spoke the words found in Genesis it was evidently Jesus, in prehumen existence, at his side.
There's only one Almighty God
Interesting that at first the bible talks about Elohim, which is plural for gods.
Then we see the word 'El', stolen, or at least adopted, from the Canaanites. Hardly original.
Over time, these multiple gods melded into a singular one.
Then we get more personal with Yahweh, who is singular. Soon this becomes Jehovah.
The god of the OT is has so many multiple personalities, that in modern times, we would call it a mental disorder.
So, no, the OT does NOT only talk about one god. It transitions from many to one, and borrowed from neighboring tribes along the way.
The Mysteries of Mithras: The Pagan Belief That Shaped the Christian World
by Payam Nabarz (Author), Caitlin Matthews (Author)
FYI: This Nabarz book is not a piece of scholarship, and advances views held by no modern Mithras scholar. It's a headbanger tome, in short. Your best bet for reliable infor on Mithras is to read the standard university textbook, Manfred Clauss, "The Roman cult of Mithras", trans. Richard Gordon, published by Oxford UP.
I don't know about your other "research material" but it looks extremely doubtful. There are endless books written by headbangers to prove nonsense. Research needs to start with the ancient sources, and continue with the best modern scholarship, authored by people holding teaching posts at mainstream universities and subject to peer review.
.... But with The Messiah Myth, noted Biblical scholar Thomas L. Thompson argues that the quest for the historical Jesus is beside the point, since the Jesus of the Gospels never existed.
From which we learn that Thompson is not a biblical scholar or, indeed, a scholar of any form of ancient history. The only scholar who holds that view, Robert Price, has been unable to find a teaching post. It's a silly idea.
FYI: This Nabarz book is not a piece of scholarship, and advances views held by no modern Mithras scholar. It's a headbanger tome, in short. Your best bet for reliable infor on Mithras is to read the standard university textbook, Manfred Clauss, "The Roman cult of Mithras", trans. Richard Gordon, published by Oxford UP.
I don't know about your other "research material" but it looks extremely doubtful. There are endless books written by headbangers to prove nonsense. Research needs to start with the ancient sources, and continue with the best modern scholarship, authored by people holding teaching posts at mainstream universities and subject to peer review.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
Quote:
Originally Posted by roger_pearse
From which we learn that Thompson is not a biblical scholar or, indeed, a scholar of any form of ancient history. The only scholar who holds that view, Robert Price, has been unable to find a teaching post. It's a silly idea.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
Seems to be the case so many times. Skeptics have been at this stuff for 250 years and are still on first base.
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