Christian morality: an atheist's point of view (hell, America, Revelations)
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This might help: See Ethics (moral philosophy) in Wikipedia and specifically Descriptive Ethics. It is not separate from morality in general but there are different levels of discussing and explaining morality. I am actually trying to bring Vizio back to reality instead hiding out in his metaphysical world and refusing to engage practically or epistemologically.
a curve ball, your speaking in general.
09-21-2014, 02:46 PM
2K5Gx2km
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sophronius
a curve ball, your speaking in general.
A Good Philosopher has many different pitches it is not my fault if the batter strikes out.
This might be impossible since he seems not to understand the issues here. He just invokes God and stamps objective on it and then ask everyone else to do the labor he refuses to do.
Thanks to you guys for allowing me to live rent-free in your heads. It's amazing how you continue to discuss me.
We don't have to. For example, I consider propagating religion to be immoral. It is detrimental to those who buy into it and can cause harm. Therefore what you do on Sundays is, in my view, immoral. I understand and accept that you do not agree and do not feel bound by my moral judgnent.
Again....we have not established that we determine morality according to your system of "is it harmful".
Why is that the system to use?
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This moral judgment is completely different from law. At the moment, the law supports you and declares it to be your right to be immoral, and most likely always will support you.
That's a non-issue. Stop moving the goalposts.
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Take a different topic, like murder. The concensus of society is that murder is immoral, and the force of law backs up societies view. Just like slavery. You consider it to be morally justified, but society does not. It doesn't really matter what you think, the concensus of the other people in your society overrules you.
Sometimes laws are moral, other times they are not. That view differs from one person to another.
It is immoral, yes. But how does consensus determine morality? Why is it the method to use?
Can you explain how your subjective morality is capable of judging that someone's subjective morality in 2014 is not capable of judging Nazi Germany in 1943? Why is your subjective conclusion on this matter any more valid than someone's subjective conclusion that they can? Do you not understand the trap you are setting for yourself every time you type your subjective opinion and conclusions about our subjective opinions and conclusions? In order for you to refute or deny our subjective conclusions being able to judge you have to judge our conclusion using your subjective judgment. Hello!
The 1943 Nazis did not care what your system of morality is. They determined they were going to do it their way. They decided killing Jews was moral. Who are you to disagree?
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Do you not understand that no one has actually tried to argue that an individual's subjective view is authoritative over anyone else's subjective view. Therefore, that is a straw man on your part.That being said it is consensus (inter-subjective persons) that renders the authority by means of enforcement of that consensus. That's it - that is the world we actually live in - and you can't argue against that fact whether your god exists or not.
Furthermore, I and others have answered how we can judge human actions, you just don't like the answers and do nothing to refute them other than by shear unsubstantiated assertions to the contrary and refuse to answer any questions put to you.
You're bankrupt and broken on the matter.
Then you have no answer for what is moral and what is not. All you have is your personal opinion.
The 1943 Nazis did not care what your system of morality is. They determined they were going to do it their way. They decided killing Jews was moral. Who are you to disagree?
You can't and that applies to your morality as well, Vizio. No matter what morality you use it is subjective based on what YOU personally believe is its source. Your source is the God you believe in as described in the Bible that YOU subjectively believe is authoritative. Others do NOT! Your attempt to pretend that it is objective is silly. The ONLY objective and absolute morality is the one based on our purpose for existing, period.The problem becomes discerning what that purpose IS. It is not to OBEY YOUR God's caprice, Vizio! We are not toys or pets or puppets for YOUR God's entertainment. There is a genuine purpose for our existence and it is to produce agape love. Everything that is constructive to agape love is moral. Everything that is destructive to agape love is immoral. If it is neither constructive nor destructive it is amoral.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shiloh1
This might be impossible since he seems not to understand the issues here. He just invokes God and stamps objective on it and then ask everyone else to do the labor he refuses to do.
Amen. He has no other agenda. He actually thinks his morality is objective, absolute and authoritative. He clearly has no clue what those words mean.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Thanks to you guys for allowing me to live rent-free in your heads. It's amazing how you continue to discuss me.
Your obtuseness about your own claims regarding morality are what continue to amaze us, Vizio. It is so egregious it has to be deliberate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vizio
Again....we have not established that we determine morality according to your system of "is it harmful".
Why is that the system to use?
That's a non-issue. Stop moving the goalposts.
It is immoral, yes. But how does consensus determine morality? Why is it the method to use?
WE have established many things. YOU have established NOTHING. See my post above which you routinely ignore, Vizio. it is absolute, objective and authoritative on many levels. YOUR morality is NONE of those things.
09-21-2014, 07:07 PM
2K5Gx2km
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Vizio let's go really slow here:
Do you believe that morality is subjective or objective?
I believe it is subjective.
Now go ahead and answer the question.
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It is not separate from morality in general but there are different levels of discussing and explaining morality. I am actually trying to bring Vizio back to reality instead hiding out in his metaphysical world and refusing to engage practically or epistemologically.
