Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Those wise men were astronomers, they knew the knowledge of the stars. We look up and see Orion and the 7 stars that pour out on Orion, if something were to change, it would give meaning. The knowledge of the Zodiac tells a story night by night and it declares the truth of God. One of them represents Israel, and that is the point of the star of Bethlehem. In the days that Jesus was born, Jupiter the kingship planet stood over Aries and it meant that a child king was born in Israel and they already knew the city because of the Prophecy, and they were priests.
The event of the star of Bethlehem was so great that a coin depicted it after it happen and the coin is still extant showing the event.
I do not claim to a numismatic expert not an astrology expert, but I have never heard that any star represents Israel (1) or anything as particular as a Royal birth, let alone, that of a messiah. I think your argument is tenuous and far -fetched as an explanation of how the wise men (and astrologers is likely enough) could get a messianic birth in Judea from the night sky, with or without Jupiter in Aires or the crab nebula nova.
I should like to see a link to this coin with the star of Bethlehem. Ah Ok, Jupiter in Aires. Let me look it up..
Ok this is a coin issues by the Romans in Syria. It is claimed by an astronomer, Dr Molnar, as signifying Jupiter appearing in Aires. How long would it be in Aires? A couple of months? Why would it be so important to the Romans to issue a coin about it? And would the wise men (if astrologers) really leap to the conclusion that it signified Israel and a messianic birth? It sounds an awful long shot and I think we are going to hear a lot more about this and how someone is indulging in a huge reach.
The site I read was clearly a religious one (the name 'Gingerich' was mentioned) seemed to be trying to make a link back to Herod's time from the 1st c AD, but of course the Romans were governing Syria long before Herod's time and before the census of 6 A.D.
So there is a lot to question here, not least when this coin was issued and what it signifies.
I have had a coin of Asia minor wagged at me because it shows Noah's Ark. It turned out to prove nothing but a profitable tourist industry.
(1) I am of course aware that the star of David is associated with messiahs (Bar Kochba, for instance) but that coin just looks like a normal celestial body - star or planet - and the link with Israel is not apparent.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-03-2014 at 02:15 PM..
Saint Eusebius the faux -ingenuous. While the jibe is a bit well -worn, it is pointing out how unsound your arguments are and how little credibility you have left.
Nobody can prove anything to you, if you don't want to hear it.
The only source we have for the apostolic endorsement of Paul's mission to the Gentiles is Paul, what waas mentally ill and a fake apostle, if one is going to be brutally unkind about it. And Acts, written by Luke, who has been proven to lie about Paul, contradict himself about Ppaul and get his history back to front. Not to mention daft stories like the hammock -full of lizards.
A baseless assertion made in defiance of the evidence.
Crash. Burn. Yet again.
Dear folks, yet again we have someone telling me I have little credibility left from someone who lost all credibility long ago. (Oh, that was mean of me, now wasn't it?)
But really, look at what AREQUIPA wrote above about Paul and Luke lying about Paul. Yet all actual PROOF of such ribald claims are mysteriously absent.
So once again, from AREQUIPA we have the writers of the gospels purposely getting their stories all wrong, I guess so no one would believe in Jesus. After all, that must have been all the writer's goals in the New Testament to discredit Christ and die for discrediting Him. Yes, of course, it all makes sense now.
Dear AREQUIPA, You, my dear sir, might be classed by some as a muttonhead. Now far be it from me to ever call anyone names on these boards. No sir, I would never call you a derogatory name.
I do not claim to a numismatic expert not an astology expert, but I have never heard that any star represents Israel or anything as particular as a Royal birth, let alone, that of a messiah. I think your argument is tenuous and far -fetched as an explanation of how the wise men (and astrologers is likely enough) could get a messianic birth in Judea from the night sky, with or without Jupiter in Aires or the crab nebula nova.
I should like to see a link to this coin with the star of Bethlehem. Ah Ok, Jupiter in Aires. Let me look it up..
When I was in high school we had a very nice planetarium. Our teacher worked at the observatory in Hawaii prior to coming to our city. I was in his class. He taught astronomy using equations spanning several blackboards the width and length of the class room. He was very well educated. One day he put on a show for us in the planetarium, detailing the star of Bethlehem by having the computer go back to the time of Christ's birth. I believe it was an alignment in Virgo the Virgin. But, yea, even the smartest scientists tell stories like this for the sole purpose of discrediting Christ.
Dear folks, yet again we have someone telling me I have little credibility left from someone who lost all credibility long ago. (Oh, that was mean of me, now wasn't it?)
But really, look at what AREQUIPA wrote above about Paul and Luke lying about Paul. Yet all actual PROOF of such ribald claims are mysteriously absent.
So once again, from AREQUIPA we have the writers of the gospels purposely getting their stories all wrong, I guess so no one would believe in Jesus. After all, that must have been all the writer's goals in the New Testament to discredit Christ and die for discrediting Him. Yes, of course, it all makes sense now.
Dear AREQUIPA, You, my dear sir, might be classed by some as a muttonhead. Now far be it from me to ever call anyone names on these boards. No sir, I would never call you a derogatory name.
I have already shown that Paul says he escaped Damascus to avoid the Nabatean army. Acts (Luke) lies as he says it was to avoid a Jewish plot to kill him. Luke (Acts) gets his insurgents the wrong way round. Theudas came after Judas, not before. I have explained this before and if you refuse to listen it is your credibility that is shot, not mine.
Don't you ever get tired of being shown up to be wrong all the time?
you haven't even seen the documentary
so please refrain from commenting.
If I know about the arguments surrounding the Matthew Nativity I can comment, documentary or not. Whether you like it or not. If YOU want to watch the documentary and put particular points, I will consider them but, as usual, I am disinclined to go running off after a posted link finding your evidence for you.
What we do today and what they did 2000 years ago need not be the same way things are done.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
Sure, uhhuh. Yea, now I see the real truth. The gospels were written to actually disprove Jesus was the Christ! The writers purposely wrote all that in order to keep people from believing! Yes, it all makes sense to me now!
Well of course! Luke didn't know how things were run in his own country! So he made it all up and purposely put everything wrong just so no one would believe In Jesus! Of course! Now I see it! Thank you AREQUIPA for being our saviour from the world of rationality into the world of Alice in Wonderland! We are all free because of you! Thank you! Not!
You are getting quite excited, old pal, and your strawman argument are made from very flimsy straw indeed. Judea (nor Galilee) was patently not his 'own country' as he is very vague about his geography, and, while he did his best to make his story credible, it was actually unworkable as well as contradicting Matthew.
The attempt to argue that things were done different back then and Luke knew what he was tyalking about must be weighed by others against the view that to register for a census that did not apply to Galilee and in an ancestral town miles away where Joseph did not live or work and hardly knew where he did live. The Bethlehem trip is absurd, unhistorical and Mary going along dubious in the extreme. I ought to add that archaeology suggests Bethlehem was uninhabited at the time, but I can't confirm this.
Against this you only produce the truly feeble argument that they may have 'dome thing differently' then and some pretty unworthy sarcasm and abuse. I don't mind, as it is your credibility further reduced and is not surly in negative ratings.
When I was in high school we had a very nice planetarium. Our teacher worked at the observatory in Hawaii prior to coming to our city. I was in his class. He taught astronomy using equations spanning several blackboards the width and length of the class room. He was very well educated. One day he put on a show for us in the planetarium, detailing the star of Bethlehem by having the computer go back to the time of Christ's birth. I believe it was an alignment in Virgo the Virgin. But, yea, even the smartest scientists tell stories like this for the sole purpose of discrediting Christ.
Years ago I read a book about The Star of Bethlehem. This presented a scenario that explained rather nicely how a series of uncommon astronomical occurrences, noticeable by astronomers but not many others, would lead to Wise Men of the East going to Jerusalem seeking the newborn King of the Jews. Strange things in Matthew, such seeing the star in the East but going west and the star standing over Bethlehem, suddenly make sense if seen from the viewpoint of an astronomer of that era.
I do not recall enough of the details to present the whole detailed argument and the book is one of many still in boxes that I cannot easily unpack one handed. In any case the author - a professional astronomer - presented it as speculation not fact, that there really might have been a Star of Bethlehem. But it intrigues me that Matthew just might have come across some record written by real astronomers and incorporated it into his Gospel without really understanding it. That would IMO make the star business the most believable part of the story.
When I was in high school we had a very nice planetarium. Our teacher worked at the observatory in Hawaii prior to coming to our city. I was in his class. He taught astronomy using equations spanning several blackboards the width and length of the class room. He was very well educated. One day he put on a show for us in the planetarium, detailing the star of Bethlehem by having the computer go back to the time of Christ's birth. I believe it was an alignment in Virgo the Virgin. But, yea, even the smartest scientists tell stories like this for the sole purpose of discrediting Christ.
Yes, Mercury in Libra, Jupiter in Aires or something in Virgo. I am astonished at reputable astronomers coming up with celestial conjunctions as the 'Star of Bethlehem'. I must doubt that anything could conjunct in the skies so as to send wise men scuttling off to Judea in search of a new born Messiah, much less with intent to 'worship; him.
The Matthew story is silly, as I have explained, and attempts to link the moving star, a single light that led the way to Bethlehem and indicated a particular house, with a conjuction of stars and planets suggests that some astronomers should attend to their telescopes and leave explanations of Bible nonsense to those with the ability to understand what they read.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 12-03-2014 at 02:31 PM..
I do not claim to a numismatic expert not an astology expert, but I have never heard that any star represents Israel or anything as particular as a Royal birth, let alone, that of a messiah. I think your argument is tenuous and far -fetched as an explanation of how the wise men (and astrologers is likely enough) could get a messianic birth in Judea from the night sky, with or without Jupiter in Aires or the crab nebula nova.
I should like to see a link to this coin with the star of Bethlehem. Ah Ok, Jupiter in Aires. Let me look it up..
Ok this is a coin issues by the Romans in Syria. It is claimed by an astronomer, Dr Molnar, as signifying Jupiter appearing in Aires. How long would it be in Aires? A couple of months? Why would it be so important to the Romans to issue a coin about it? And would the wise men (if astrologers) really leap to the conclusion that it signified Israel and a messianic birth? It sounds an awful long shot and I think we are going to hear a lot more about this and how someone is indulging in a huge reach.
The site I read was clearly a religious one (the name 'Gingerich' was mentioned) seemed to be trying to make a link back to Herod's time from the 1st c AD, but of course the Romans were governing Syria long before Herod's time and before the census of 6 A.D.
So there is a lot to question here, not least when this coin was issued and what it signifies.
I have had a coin of Asia minor wagged at me because it shows Noah's Ark. It turned out to prove nothing but a profitable tourist industry.
Roma had it's own ideas about who Aries was, and that's why they depicted the coin.
The Bible is full of sayings and idioms about the knowledge of the Zodiac, a lot of people may not know that, but it is nonetheless true.
There are literally so many idioms and sayings about Aries that until a person begins to study it, he will never really understand what is being said in many scriptures.
Jesus having 7 stars in his right hand is speaking of Orion and the Pleiades.
The Woman and the Dragon
A great sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars; and she was with child; and she cried out, being in labor and in pain to give birth.…
This was said about the Zodiac, and the camp of the Tent of meeting was set up according to the Zodiac like the Sphinx is.
3 tribes in each direction {4 directions}
All 12 tribes are each given a constellation, and Aries stands for the nation itself.
Aries is the Ram of Israel, and it is also specific to Issachar.
The Biblical school said that Aries represented Abraham’s Ram caught in the thicket [Allen, Star Names] when the then current religious-law demanded that the first-born son be sacrificed to God.
"Then Abraham lifted his eyes and looked, and there behind him was a ram caught in a thicket by its horns. So Abraham went and took the ram, and offered it up for a burnt offering instead of his son [Isaac]" Gen 22:10-13
Abraham and Isaac are said to be represented by the Centaur Centaurus [or perhaps Centaurus and Lupus]. Ara, the Altar, was the place where the sacrifice took place.
Aries' symbol, , represents the spiral horns of a Ram. The Hebrew word for a ram's horn was shofar, from Hebrew shophar, 'ram's horn,' related to Arabic sawafiru, 'ram's horns,' Akkadian shapparu, 'wild goat'
The shofar was blown on two days of the year; Rosh Hashanah, corresponding to the Christian Feast of Trumpets, - rosh means 'head', and hashanah, 'year'; and Yom Kippur, corresponding to the Christian Day of Atonement. The shofar blown at mount Sinai, when the Torah was given, came from the ram which had been sacrificed in place of Isaac .
Less commonly, the shofar was called yobel . In Leviticus xxv, the Jubilee Year was laid down as a year of celebration proclaimed every fifty years by blowing trumpets throughout Israel. The word jubilee is related to yobel, a ram's horn trumpet. Hebrew yobhel meant 'leading animal, ram,' and by extension 'ram's horn,' and since a ram's horn was a trumpet blown to announce the start of a special year in which slaves were freed, land left untilled, etc, the term yobel came to be used for the year itself.
The blowing of important trumpets like the last trump are given names and they represent the two horns of a ram. Part of the veil which enclosed the Holy of Holies is made from Ram skin dyed red, and so there is a whole science of Ram's in the bible, and it is all connected to Aries being Israel.
The Rams Horn which is blown on the feast of Trumpets is the last trump, and it is when the wedding takes place, and Aries will be in the Sun.
Aries is the Leader of Israel
The Lord Jesus Christ is the leader of the flock of Israel Psa 23:1
He is the Commander-in-Chief of the Army of Israel (Josh 5:14; 1 Sa 4:4)
He is the Shepherd of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob (Gen 48:15).
The Sun in Aries symbolizes the husband or leader's glory, the face of Christ (Rev 1:16), or the face of Moses (Ex 34:35).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
While the jibe is a bit well -worn, it is pointing out how unsound your arguments are and how little credibility you have left. 
, represents the spiral horns of a Ram. The Hebrew word for a ram's horn was 
