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Any belief that says there is another way besides Jesus Christ is wrong- yes I know that will get alot of people angry. There is only ONE sin that will send any of us to eternal damnation, and that is rejecting what Christ did on the cross. Believing one can "earn" a place in heaven thru trying hard or being good will not work. Popular culture wants to believe there are "many" ways to God- that is against the Bible. Christ is the only way- admitting to being wrong about that is what people need to do. It requires alot of humility and sometimes humiliation. Even then, we don't do it on our own- His Holy Spirit influences us to believe (John 6:44). We want to take credit for what Jesus has done- that pride keeps people from believing.
Luke, I believe that if there is a God who is love (as Christians claim) I don't have to do anything to earn that love. That God isn't holding anything against me, no matter what I believe or don't believe about Jesus, or about anything else. How is that prideful?
Any belief that says there is another way besides Jesus Christ is wrong- yes I know that will get alot of people angry. There is only ONE sin that will send any of us to eternal damnation, and that is rejecting what Christ did on the cross. Believing one can "earn" a place in heaven thru trying hard or being good will not work. Popular culture wants to believe there are "many" ways to God- that is against the Bible. Christ is the only way- admitting to being wrong about that is what people need to do. It requires alot of humility and sometimes humiliation. Even then, we don't do it on our own- His Holy Spirit influences us to believe (John 6:44). We want to take credit for what Jesus has done- that pride keeps people from believing.
The chances of one specific version of one specific religion being the one and only true religion is about 0%. I'm extremely turned off by any religion that thinks it has the TRUTH! That's where extremism comes into play.
People generally believe what they believe because that's what they were raised with, and it's a social norm in their little world. Whether you're Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Baptist, Catholic... and every other brand of religion. None of them can logically be the one and only way.
About the bolded parts here, so are you saying you do not support same-sex marriage because of your personal beliefs?
Considering that I DO support same sex marriage but I support it based on constitutional reasons. I do not support banning things for personal reasons. Eat what you want, drink what you want, smoke what you want, unless what you are doing has an effect on others lives (drinking and driving etc) then it is none of my business. My marriage has no effect on the lives of others, so it is none of their business.
My main question is this: What about the way Christianity was presented to you made you feel like it was being forced down your throat? And, what could the person(s) who presented it you have done differently to make it less of a bitter pill to swallow?
I'm not opposed to people wanting to convince me that their beliefs are correct, and I can't really blame parents for bringing their children to church. My specific concerns are:
(1) Using political power to impose legal restrictions on lifestyles that some Christians find offensive.
(2) The general social pressure aimed at shaming people who do not agree with Christian values.
I think that (1) is fairly obvious, so I will focus on (2) for a couple of examples. I believe, for example, that a great deal of the shame that his heaped upon sex workers is ultimately rooted in religious values (not just Christian, but certainly Christianity plays a role). Obviously some people who contribute to this shaming process are not necessarily religious, but if you could somehow subtract the influence of Christian moral crusading on this issue, I think that the residual social stigmas about sex work would be (or could someday become) relatively minor. I'm using sex work as an example because I think it is a case in which the Christian moral influence clearly (in my view) does a great deal of harm. The lives of sex workers would not have to be nearly so dangerous and miserable if this part of the economy could come out of the shadows.
Some other examples of issues that I think would be handled better without such heavy-handed Christian influence would be "the war on drugs", anti-nudity laws (especially female toplessness), gay marriage, and non-monogamous lifestyles. Almost anything that falls in the category of victimless crime would become less of a problem if Christians adopted more of a "live and let live" attitude. Christians certainly should, of course, be free to express their discomfort with these things, and they should certainly be free to offer logical arguments, but the bottom line is that, I think, they do more harm that good on these types of issues involving individual liberty. Social pressures to conform to religiously-rooted values surrounding sexuality and drug use generally lead to unnecessary suffering.
I think a better Christian approach would be: "Lead by example" - i.e., simply don't participate in lifestyle choices that seem offensive, and adopt the frame of mind that says "It is not for me, but for God to judge." Obviously we all make judgments about other people, but having a personal option of someone is different than publically condemning people and claiming that they are "sick" or "degraded" or "abominations" just because they choose an alternative lifestyle.
Last edited by Gaylenwoof; 02-09-2015 at 10:52 AM..
Any belief that says there is another way besides Jesus Christ is wrong- yes I know that will get alot of people angry. There is only ONE sin that will send any of us to eternal damnation, and that is rejecting what Christ did on the cross. Believing one can "earn" a place in heaven thru trying hard or being good will not work. Popular culture wants to believe there are "many" ways to God- that is against the Bible. Christ is the only way- admitting to being wrong about that is what people need to do. It requires alot of humility and sometimes humiliation. Even then, we don't do it on our own- His Holy Spirit influences us to believe (John 6:44). We want to take credit for what Jesus has done- that pride keeps people from believing.
The only religious belief trying to take credit for Jesus is Christianity.
Jesus the Christ, is not Jesus the man. Jesus the Christ was created by Paul and co-opted by the Romans.
Jesus the man was a poor, radical revolutionary. His words are the perspective of the poor and disenfranchised. History is usually written by men in power, and Christianity is no different.
Is the point of your interaction with non-believers to bring them to Christ? If so, than to many of us any kindness you show, any sense of goodwill we get from you feels deceptive. There is a hook in your bait, and we want no part of it. This is not specific to you, this is an inherent issue in fundamentalism from its inception. Fundamental Christianity arose as a reaction to the mainstream denominations focus on social issues, and physical needs. But by focusing on evangelism, much of Christianity has set up the expectation that any kindness, charity, friendship or love has a catch, a hook. Honestly, the only way to get around this is to abandon the concept of evangelism, which I don't think many Christians can do. As long as you are trying to sell something, anything other than a straightforward sales pitch will be regarded with suspicion.
Can't rep you but would if I could. Well said.
Fundamentalism actually has a term for a focus on social issues and physical needs: "The Social Gospel". It is a fairly major taboo. The general thought is that addressing social issues is like putting lipstick on a pig; the social issues themselves are considered the result of sinful actions, "leaving god out" of decisions, and just generally focusing on the material at the expense of the spiritual.
Of course back here in the Real World, people still go cold and hungry whether or not they are born again. And the reality is that the only tangible, concrete, meaningful things that can be done to ease human suffering are actions that address suffering at its source: lack of education, poverty, inadequate health care including mental health care, various stigmas, and so forth. If you really think the source is god's displeasure or lack of support, then you will not care to address actual causes.
In fairness (and sometimes I wonder why I still even care to be fair when theists are constantly accusing me of things that aren't so ... but that has to be their issue, not mine) some evangelicals do address physical needs. A good friend of mine was a missionary and he organized deliveries of food, surplus medical supplies, and the like, but he was not above attaching strings, such as you had to listen to a dubbed "life of Christ" movie or listen to some other "presentation of the gospel" as a condition of receiving aid. I think that a lot of this was posturing to make sure he was not accused of acting out "the social gospel" by his financial backers. He was not the first "front line field personnel" (missionary) who in order to deal in the Real World, had learned to be more liberal in his thinking and to make "what the leadership back home doesn't know won't hurt them" decisions in the field.
There seems to be a disconnect between what you write and what you think you are writing.
You asked, what you could have done.
Why ask if you did not want to receive?
You have turned this into analyzing the woman, all from a three minute encounter. Stop yourself.
I think there is a disconnection from what you understand.
Again we are talking about two different things. I stated that what you suggested was not possible. It's not that I have disregarded advice. There have been other posters who have given advice or observation that has been more useful than what you said. The issue isn't with taking advice, it's your advice. It's just not something that I think would have helped the situation. Is that not clear enough?
I am not analyzing this woman. I was asked several questions about her and I answered them.
Considering that I DO support same sex marriage but I support it based on constitutional reasons. I do not support banning things for personal reasons. Eat what you want, drink what you want, smoke what you want, unless what you are doing has an effect on others lives (drinking and driving etc) then it is none of my business. My marriage has no effect on the lives of others, so it is none of their business.
So you're saying the mere fact that you are gay is just coincidental?
Do you go on a lot of threads defending marijuana laws? Soda bans? etc.
I think there is a disconnection from what you understand.
Again we are talking about two different things. I stated that what you suggested was not possible. It's not that I have disregarded advice. There have been other posters who have given advice or observation that has been more useful than what you said. The issue isn't with taking advice, it's your advice. It's just not something that I think would have helped the situation. Is that not clear enough?
I am not analyzing this woman. I was asked several questions about her and I answered them.
Clearly taking responsibility is not your forte, Grasshopper. It takes time. You have time.
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