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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Don't Atheists do the same?
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No.
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
They claim there is no God, but when asked for "tangible proof", they come up with all sort of twisted attempts yet they can't disporove the existence of God in an experiment in a scientific lab.
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I've never heard someone suggest before that scientists should conduct "anti-experiments" that will prove the negative assertion that no god exists. I'm not even sure that's possible and ranks up there with dividing by zero.
Project Leader: "Well, colleagues, we've utterly failed to prove that unicorn pee mixed with motor oil turns into ambrosia so we'll begin publishing tomorrow. Yes, it is beyond doubt. Unicorn pee and motor oil mixed together results in ambrosia."
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
It's called "faith" for a reason. You read the signs, you use your brain and your intelligence and then you put your faith into it.
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It's called "faith" because there's no evidence besides for that which people make up, usually resulting in an "argument from ignorance" fallacy.
If more people actually used their brains and intelligence when analyzing religion, there would be far more atheists. By the time a child hits kindergarten, he/she will already be familiar with most of the OT Bible stories and will be able to name certain figures like Noah and Moses -- but that child will have to wait another 10 years at least before hearing about evolution, the Big Bang, climate change, and whatever else with which a Christian might take issue. By then, for many, it's already too late.
I sometimes think religion somehow gives people the illusion that they're thinking when in reality they're just regurgitating and parroting that which their church told them -- or what the Bible told them.
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Here is a small sign, try to ponder upon it with an open mind and open up to the idea that perhaps there is knowledge beyond the limit of what you know.
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Oh, I freely admit that there are lots and lots of things I don't know. However, I actually admit that I don't know them. The religious, on the other hand, are the ones who ought to be taking your own advice because
they're the ones who assert absolute knowledge. If you ask me how did life begin, I would say, "I don't know ... at least not yet." If you were to ask a Christian the same question, he would say, "God did it!" or even go so far as to recite that ridiculous story about Adam and Eve. And that is 100% true, dontchya know! There's no "knowledge beyond the limit of what [they] know" when it comes to their religion and their God. It is absolute, it is rigid, it is immovable, it is unchangeable, it is fact, fact, fact.
Religion almost never EVER says, "I don't know."
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
From a naked eye, the moon and sun look the same in size but the sun is actually 400 times bigger than the moon. However, and interestingly enough, the sun is also 400 times farther from the earth then the moon.
Ask yourself, did this happen all by itself? Was it a co-incidence, was it by chance?
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Yes ... yes it was. Don't you GET it? Things really DO happen that doesn't have a divine hand behind it. Do you think every time your pen rolls off your desk, God is pushing it? Do you think every time the store just happens to have the exact item you need -- and it's the very last one -- God wanted you to have it?
I just wonder ... because what kind of capricious God would do something as POINTLESS as giving us pretty total eclipses but whoops! I guess he forgot to make Africa a fertile continent! Oh well, guess those Africans will just have to starve. But hey! As they're looking up while their stomach's growl, at least they'll get to see the "diamond ring" effect from a total eclipse of the sun!
C'mon! Think about it. You can string together just about any series of events and show how the odds of them happening at just the right time, at just the right place, and in just the right way to give astronomical odds. If I had more knowledge of the process, I could even show you how mind-boggling the odds were of you eating your particular breakfast this morning. Should we all then assume that God is now your nutritionist?
Oh yeah, I almost forgot. You do realize that the moon is moving away from the earth at the rate of around a couple of inches per year ... right? Sooner or later that perfect 400/400 ratio will become 401/400 and the apparent diameter of the moon will be too small to completely cover up the sun's face.
I can just hear the deity-worshipers in those days:
"Well ... the apparent diameter of the moon
used to be the same as the apparent diameter of the sun, giving us perfect solar eclipses. That proves beyond doubt that there
used to be a god!" (*snicker*)
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
And if your answer is yes, then,
Take a small bucket and your smart phone and go to your driveway.
Gather a few small stones and put them on the concrete in a certain order - let's say alphabets that form your name.
Now, take out your cell phone and take a picture.
Pick up the stones and put them in the basket.
Toss the stones in the air from your basket and let them land on the concrete - repeat this process 100 trillion times and you can't form your name again.
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Wow, I feel sorry for the sod they managed to hoodwink into tossing those stones day and night. I bet his arm is sore already and he's probably only on toss #3,825.
Point being is that unless you've actually conducted that experiment, you're just guessing. I'm not sure where you picked up that story, but it's a perversion of mathematics and statistics. Moreover, no matter how slim the odds, it can happen. In the case of the apparent sizes of the moon and sun being the same, guess what -- it did. People get intimidated by big numbers and low odds and somehow think that low odds means impossible. They also forget that a) we have no idea how many other planets out there might have a similar sun/moon ratio and without that number it's hard to actually calculate odds and b) we're talking about the universe here. Not just the trillions of planets that we're certain exist right now, but also the trillions of planets that have been destroyed over the last 14.5 billion years. The odds get better and better the more chances you have to satisfy the conditions.
Mathematically speaking, if it takes 100 trillion tosses to have the pebbles land to spell your name -- and you have 100 trillion chances to throw the pebbles, it becomes a mathematical certainty that one of those tosses will result in your name being spelled. Now, suddenly, those big bad numbers don't seem all that intimidating any more.
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
You will perhaps realize that an explosion ends in chaos - and not in order.
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Even if an explosion seems to be more or less randomness and chaos, that doesn't mean that the results can't create order. That's already been proven -- complexity can arise from simplicity. It's not hard to grasp the idea of how an exploding star can create complex elements consisting of atoms with 60+ electrons orbiting the nucleus.
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Now imagine the universe and see how it's designed - think of all these stars and planets as those stones that you placed in an orderly fashion and ask yourself - all this order and symmetry of the universe happened by itself?
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Yes, that's what we believe. And our scientific theories certainly trump your faith -- what do you think the odds are of reality producing an omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, omni-benevolent, universe-creating God? I know most Christians believe that God exists outside of space and time, but that in itself is rather absurd.
In other words, we're supposed to accept that there is a magic-using being who takes a rather bizarre interest in foreskins and burnt offerings; a magic-using being who created the ENTIRE universe and, once created, cages himself in one tiny desert backwater on planet earth and cheerleads for the Hebrews.
I mean, seriously ... we can't even calculate the odds of those things happening because they're impossible by any known laws of physics and nature. It's just a shame that people in the modern era STILL fall prey to the same logical trap that has continually thwarted our ancestors, and their ancestors before them. Yeah, the idea that if we don't have all of the answers right this very minute OR if they think an event beat lowball odds, it must've been magic. The spirits did it. Our dead ancestors did it. Our totems did it. Our gods did it. Our God did it. And every single time the REAL answer is eventually found and superstition and primitivism has to look elsewhere for their "OMG this is the smoking gun!" proof.
And it's STILL going on.
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Yes, you will talk about Big Bang - and it will only support the existence of God.
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Haha! Here it comes. That inevitable leap from Point A to Point C. It happens every time.
NO. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
NO!
The Big Bang will NOT support the existence of God. Even if, by some fluke or fatal error, the scientific community all come to the conclusion that the universe was designed, that's as far as it goes. Full stop.
It doesn't support the existence of God. It would support the existence of a creator. Small 'c'. You don't get to start claiming your specific God and your specific religion are also True. Every deity-worshiping religion will be laying the same claim.
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Originally Posted by GoCardinals
Only the power of God can result an explosion like the Big Bang, result in an very well organized formation of universe. And this is one of the reason he is God and you are human. If not, get the basket again and continue toss the stones in the air and see you could compete with God.
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Well! It would seem that you know a lot more about the cosmos than the entire cadre of scientists the world over. In fact, your definitive, declarative statement, "Only God ..." sounds almost, well, god-like in and of itself. How do you know that "only God" can create the Big Bang? If it's sooooo wrapped up and in the bag, why do the scientists who study this topic keep finding new bits and pieces of evidence in the quantum world that show God isn't needed at all? Oh right ... this is a test of our faith! God created the universe to LOOK like it didn't need a creator just to see if we'll believe facts, logic, and reason instead of faith, superstition, and magic. Damn, I guess I failed that one in a most epic way.
Religious people always bump into the same conundrum every time they debate this issue. They begin the debate by relying on faith, but by the end of the debate, by golly, they are 1000% absolutely certain that their specific god exists and is the creator of the universe.
Uh ... why is it considered "faith" if you're so damn certain? If you think you have physical, tangible evidence? Why would the Bible ramble on and on about the virtue of faith if the smoking gun for God's existence is the 400/400 ratio between the moon and sun? If I were a Christian, I would discount ALL earthly evidence as proof of God's existence because God doesn't WANT us to know he exists by watching a total solar eclipse or by calculating the supposed odds of the Big Bang. He wants us to have FAITH.
Let science do its thing and stop trying to shoehorn your scriptures into the equation just because you think there has to be a god involved
somewhere in this mess. Isn't enough to simply have faith without seeking to
prove God's existence by undermining science?
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