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I was raised in Church, various Christian denominations but mostly non-denom (with a stint of southern baptist, i.e. Second Baptist churches). I attended a Christian school for a few years of Elementary and a few years of High School which was affiliated with Church of Christ. I was always super active in Sunday schools, Bible/activity clubs (studies, Awana, etc), went to camps and retreats and seminars, the whole nine yards. I was your typical youth group girl and I loved it. I disliked getting up for regular service on Sunday mornings for a spell, but otherwise I was happy. I didn't always felt like I fit in 100% with the others (who were more outspoken than I was for sure, some of them were confident leading prayer and worship and speaking in tongues and just had that total "LIVING FOR GOD ALL THE TIME" spirit about them) but still, I was happy and that's where all my friends were. It was like a bubble, to be honest. I can see that now, looking back.
I wouldn't trade how I grew up I guess. But now things are different. The way I see the world, as an adult, is different. After moving away from Smalltown, USA (to another small town, but different) I feel like my eyes started opening a bit. When I moved away, I actually moved in with an aunt and uncle who weren't Christian or religious at all. My aunt was raised much the same as I, but married an atheist and, while I think she probably holds on to SOME of her faith, no longer goes to Church and isn't raising her kids in Christianity. When I first moved and lived with them, I was convinced that God put me there in order to witness and try and "save" them. I tried, we had conversations, I was exercised in "apologetics" almost to a breaking point sometimes. I walked away from the conversations questioning, instead of the other way around.
Fast forward a few years and I entered University, still pretty confident in my faith, still relatively sure, still attending Church and small groups consistently. Slowly, it all just started to slip away and now I don't attend Church at all and I don't miss it. Looking back, I almost wonder if I only attended all those years and did what I did because that's what I was taught and that's what was expected of me.
I feel like I should also mention that between the ages of 10 and 11, my mom and I went through a residential mission-type "program" that was faith-based and meant to rehab and help women and children. My mom has had mental health issues for as long as I can remember, and went to this program as a last effort to get help I think. I've blocked out a lot of the memories of that time in my life, it wasn't a good time. We had bouts of homelessness, etc. My mom went through this program, got off ALL of her psych drugs and it seemed to help her, for about 6-8 years or so. I mention this only to say that when I tell people (in greater detail) of our time there, they get cult vibes and even I get them when the words come out of my mouth and I hear myself. For reasons like them teaching my mother how to "raise kids the way God would" and being physically punished (spanked with objects like paddles, belts, etc) at an older age and almost being forced to do anything and everything my mom asked of me and if I ever questioned her or had a response that wasn't a cheerful "Yes, ma'am," I'd be in trouble and told that I was disobedient and dishonoring her as my mother. We're really talking small things, not big arguments or fights or anything like that. Tasks. Bringing her things while she sat on the couch and watched. The exact phrase was that I was to obey "quickly, willingly and cheerfully" to anything she asked of me. Now, I don't necessarily think this was all bad - it taught me to be respectful of authority, and all that. I think the problem was that she sometimes took it too far, and for lack of a better word, "abused" the power and would guilt me into doing things. She wouldn't even entertain the idea of any other response. I can't decide, even now at 27, if that was appropriate parenting or off somehow. Other weird punishments included copying the entirety of Proverbs (the whole book, every verse) down in a notebook and writing essays on what it meant to honor your parents according to the Bible, not to mention the paddle spankings into my teen years. And I was a good kid for the most part, not into drugs/alcohol or anything like that - these punishments all were a result of what my mom felt was disobedience/disrespect and the occasional creative lie that I was caught in. Anyway, enough of that.
I suppose, with all that said, I'm just looking for some feedback from anyone who may have gone through a similar experience to me growing up and is now questioning faith in a way that you never thought you would. I feel like Christianity will always have a place in my heart, that maybe the "faith" bit won't ever go away entirely. For many reasons, including the fact that I've been struggling with my sexuality for YEARS, I just don't feel "right" in Church. I'm finally ~out~ as bisexual in most circles, so that's in conflict. I spend a lot of time researching and reading and I crave knowledge of other cultures and religions and I'm at that point now where every new thing I learn makes me question every old thing I was ever taught. I don't believe the same things I did when I was younger. A lot of my personal values and morals NOW don't line up with what I was taught or even what I used to believe. I support marriage equality, I'm pro-choice, identify as liberal and don't feel like religion has a place in politics. Because of all this, I feel like I want nothing to do with the church at this point.
Is this something that everyone goes through, is this a normal part of growing up and into being your own person?
Yes, this is quite a normal pattern and definitely a normal part of growing up and becoming your own person.
I am from a similar background minus the mental health issues in my parents (but have married into extended family with such dysfunctions, such that they are not alien to me). I am also conventionally and boringly heterosexual.
All that said, you seem to be entirely on the right track and yes you can and should question the alternate reality from which you originated.
I'm out of time to be more specific right now, but look forward to continuing this discussion.
One level down from here is the atheism and agnosticism forum, if that's a closer fit for you. Here in Religion & Spirituality, you will get a lot of A&A people and a variety of others including fundamentalist Christians, and lively debate between them. Your choice. Welcome and enjoy!
Your story will be a sadly familiar one to many here.
Congratulations on finding your way out from the tyranny of the fundamentalist mindset. That takes a great deal of courage.
When I read your story, the metamorphosis of caterpillar-to butterfly came to mind. You're shedding the cocoon of your dark, restrictive past and emerging into a life of possibilities.
So, flex those wings and start flying. At 27, you very likely have a lot of living, learning and enjoying ahead.
Yes, this is quite a normal pattern and definitely a normal part of growing up and becoming your own person.
I am from a similar background minus the mental health issues in my parents (but have married into extended family with such dysfunctions, such that they are not alien to me). I am also conventionally and boringly heterosexual.
All that said, you seem to be entirely on the right track and yes you can and should question the alternate reality from which you originated.
I'm out of time to be more specific right now, but look forward to continuing this discussion.
One level down from here is the atheism and agnosticism forum, if that's a closer fit for you. Here in Religion & Spirituality, you will get a lot of A&A people and a variety of others including fundamentalist Christians, and lively debate between them. Your choice. Welcome and enjoy!
Thanks for the response! I'm looking forward to any and all input and discussion from either side, truly. I just want to start the conversation somewhere. I try to speak with my mom about some of these things and I just get shut down pretty quickly. I think at this point in time, I am floating somewhere between atheism and agnosticism - not necessarily ready to completely give up all faith, but definitely not wanting to align myself with Christianity as I know either. I do still consider myself quite a "spiritual" person in regards to how I live and treat others. I love to read about Buddhism and have applied some areas of that to my own life, in meditating and that sort of thing. I find myself drawn to paganism and studying the origins and intricacies of that. I'm more and more into the "hippie" stuff, like healing crystals and I have a strange obsession with lunar cycles/the moon in general as of late. Stuff that middle and high-school me definitely would have found completely bizarre and stuff that I was taught to believe was "evil."
I think at this point in time, I am floating somewhere between atheism and agnosticism - not necessarily ready to completely give up all faith, but definitely not wanting to align myself with Christianity as I know either.
Regarding the atheism / agnosticism question, it is not actually an either/or thing that you "float between". You might want to absorb this post, particularly the graphic explaining agnosticism and its relation to atheism. Like most atheists, I'm an agnostic atheist. My knowledge position is that there might be a deity somewhere, I can't know one way or the other. That's agnosticism. My belief position is that I see no good reason to believe in any of them. That's atheism.
But many people don't want those labels for themselves. It can be divisive and/or pigeon-holing.
Yes Buddhism is pretty popular with folks like us because it is an "atheistic religion". No deity on offer, at least in most Buddhist sects. Some demigods and glorified humans perhaps, but no gods. I tend to take its core principles to borrow from without embracing the ritual and custom or absorbing it in a doctrinaire fasion.
When I left Christianity I looked at other religious notions and found them all lacking for the same basic reason: religious faith is a failed epistemology that does not lead toward truth. But I can certainly respect people who embrace religious faith so long as they don't consider it binding upon others.
Your story will be a sadly familiar one to many here.
Congratulations on finding your way out from the tyranny of the fundamentalist mindset. That takes a great deal of courage.
When I read your story, the metamorphosis of caterpillar-to butterfly came to mind. You're shedding the cocoon of your dark, restrictive past and emerging into a life of possibilities.
So, flex those wings and start flying. At 27, you very likely have a lot of living, learning and enjoying ahead.
I like that, metamorphosis sounds much nicer than identity crises.
I'm just not at all sure what I'm supposed to be feeling or thinking. I go through periods of feeling really free and liberated and other times where I feel a lot of guilt and wonder if I've made a terrible choice. My mom says that "I know what's right" and I'll either come back to it or choose to live a life of sin and suffer eternally.
Regarding the atheism / agnosticism question, it is not actually an either/or thing that you "float between". You might want to absorb this post, particularly the graphic explaining agnosticism and its relation to atheism. Like most atheists, I'm an agnostic atheist. My knowledge position is that there might be a deity somewhere, I can't know one way or the other. That's agnosticism. My belief position is that I see no good reason to believe in any of them. That's atheism.
When I left Christianity I looked at other religious notions and found them all lacking for the same basic reason: religious faith is a failed epistemology that does not lead toward truth. But I can certainly respect people who embrace religious faith so long as they don't consider it binding upon others.
Thank you for sharing that! I definitely just learned something.
EDIT: And I agree with you about respecting people who embrace religions/faiths as long as they don't force it upon someone else. Like my mom, who absolutely believes that Christianity is "the one, true way" and that life in the USA should reflect that .. we should have a Christian President that acts as a spiritual leader, prayer should be in schools (but only Christian prayer, heaven forbid young kids be exposed to anything else), and that Christians really are the enlightened ones whose purpose on Earth is to bring as many people in as possible. Funny how if you replace Christianity with Islam, or any other major world religion/faith, in the above sentence, it's suddenly "terrorism" and "mass indoctrination." She argues that this nation is a Christian nation, was founded as such, and all the "terrible things" that have happened under the Obama administration (?) are the direct result of not putting God first in all things.
And I just sit there and scratch my head at some of her answers when I ask her questions!! Why does she feel so strongly against gay marriage, etc ... "Well, because God says so." And then that's the end of the conversation, basically. Why is it okay to "force" her beliefs on me (and the rest of the world for that matter), figuratively shove them down my throat, and then dismiss me when I try to ask her why HER beliefs should affect MY LIFE, when I don't believe what she does.
I like that, metamorphosis sounds much nicer than identity crises.
I'm just not at all sure what I'm supposed to be feeling or thinking. I go through periods of feeling really free and liberated and other times where I feel a lot of guilt and wonder if I've made a terrible choice. My mom says that "I know what's right" and I'll either come back to it or choose to live a life of sin and suffer eternally.
You are "supposed to" feel whatever you feel and think whatever you think. There is a reason that some of us also identify as "freethinkers". Freedom of thought is a wonderful thing. And it is feared and loathed more than anything else by True Believers. Fundamentalism's anti-intellectual bent ("lean not unto your own understanding") is not by accident.
Religious faith is belief without a requirement of valid evidence or logical argument. Let that sink in. How can that possibly lead to truth?
Fundamentalist religious faith is also more about correct belief than about virtuous actions. If there's a conflict between believing what you're "supposed to" believe and doing what is clearly right, belief will win out every time. Fundamentalists live in terror of being wrong, because if you're wrong, you go to hell for eternity.
Back here in the Real World, if you're wrong, you pick yourself up, dust yourself off, and start over again with a better understanding of the problem space.
Pay attention to what people do, not what they say or believe -- pay attention to experienced reality rather than asserted reality -- and you will be fine.
Thanks for the response! I'm looking forward to any and all input and discussion from either side, truly. I just want to start the conversation somewhere. I try to speak with my mom about some of these things and I just get shut down pretty quickly. I think at this point in time, I am floating somewhere between atheism and agnosticism - not necessarily ready to completely give up all faith, but definitely not wanting to align myself with Christianity as I know either. I do still consider myself quite a "spiritual" person in regards to how I live and treat others. I love to read about Buddhism and have applied some areas of that to my own life, in meditating and that sort of thing. I find myself drawn to paganism and studying the origins and intricacies of that. I'm more and more into the "hippie" stuff, like healing crystals and I have a strange obsession with lunar cycles/the moon in general as of late. Stuff that middle and high-school me definitely would have found completely bizarre and stuff that I was taught to believe was "evil."
I'm a lifetimer myself, but the more I look back, the more I see that I spent time deconverting from a religion that I didn't actually believe. It puzzled me for a while but reading other accounts, a Deconversion "release" is what I experienced. It was finally letting go of the claims I never believed anyway.
If you stay where you are now - having an attachment to your former religion - that is absolutely fine. I still maintain an attachment to Buddhism though I decided after 10 years that I didn't want to do it religiously, and then that I didn't believe it. But I still keep a shrine room in the house.
p.s Mordant explains the usual thing that atheism is a belief position bassed on agnosticism, which is a knowledge position.
Agnosticism "I do not know whether there is a god or not".
Atheism: "So I will not believe in one until I do know."
But I know what you mean:
Atheism - being sure that god and Christianity is not true.
Agnosticism: not really being sure of that.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 08-18-2016 at 11:20 AM..
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For reasons like them teaching my mother how to "raise kids the way God would" and being physically punished (spanked with objects like paddles, belts, etc) at an older age and almost being forced to do anything and everything my mom asked of me and if I ever questioned her or had a response that wasn't a cheerful "Yes, ma'am," I'd be in trouble and told that I was disobedient and dishonoring her as my mother. We're really talking small things, not big arguments or fights or anything like that. Tasks. Bringing her things while she sat on the couch and watched. The exact phrase was that I was to obey "quickly, willingly and cheerfully" to anything she asked of me. Now, I don't necessarily think this was all bad - it taught me to be respectful of authority, and all that. I think the problem was that she sometimes took it too far, and for lack of a better word, "abused" the power and would guilt me into doing things. She wouldn't even entertain the idea of any other response. I can't decide, even now at 27, if that was appropriate parenting or off somehow. Other weird punishments included copying the entirety of Proverbs (the whole book, every verse) down in a notebook and writing essays on what it meant to honor your parents according to the Bible, not to mention the paddle spankings into my teen years. And I was a good kid for the most part, not into drugs/alcohol or anything like that - these punishments all were a result of what my mom felt was disobedience/disrespect and the occasional creative lie that I was caught in. Anyway, enough of that. 
Stuff that middle and high-school me definitely would have found completely bizarre and stuff that I was taught to believe was "evil."
