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My deleted post was about inciting the killing or threatening to kill abortionists on the grounds of self defence. I asked what a man would be doing at an abortion clinic killing in self defence!
I didn't take into account a woman going there to kill but the same logic applies. It is not self defense, it's terrorism - by incited Christians!
The apostle Paul, who wrote 1/3 the New Testament, said that he was the "Chief of sinners". He lamented that he couldn't stop doing what he didn't want to do.
I realize that people are sinners. I sin daily. It's what I am.
But I also strive to be like Christ. If one is a Christian, one does not go and do something heinous like premeditated murder of that magnitude. That is not striving to be like Christ. It goes against every tenet of Christianity to do so.
What can I say, Vizio, except to reiterate that Christians are still human; still flawed, passionate and often violent beings.
That someone is Christian is no guarantee that they're a good person. Christians have, in the past (the very recent past, in fact) gone to prison for negligent homicide for starving their children, or trying to 'beat infernal influences' out of them.
The fact of the matter is, there is no guarantee that a person's religion will have any bearing on their behavior. A Christian is just as capable of murder as anyone else; while I accept your premise on the basis that Christians shouldn't commit murder, it remains true that there is a wide difference between 'shouldn't' and 'won't'.
My deleted post was about inciting the killing or threatening to kill abortionists on the grounds of self defence. I asked what a man would be doing at an abortion clinic killing in self defence!
It's permissible to take a life in self defense of others.
That is not a Human Right, rather it is part and parcel of the Human Condition inherent and innate to being Human. I don't need any government or any law to authorize me to do so.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy
I didn't take into account a woman going there to kill but the same logic applies.
By your logic, if I see someone attempting to kill you I should just keep on walking instead of trying to intervene.
I would argue I have a moral and ethical duty to intervene on your behalf.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 303Guy
It is not self defense, it's terrorism - by incited Christians!
That's a short sighted view, especially since I'm an Atheist. I guess you would have labeled Abolitionists as terrorists.
That's a short sighted view, especially since I'm an Atheist. I guess you would have labeled Abolitionists as terrorists.
Well, then, tell us what logical reason a person has to be killing people in 'self-defense' at an abortion clinic. Is somebody's unborn child waving a pistol? Is a doctor brandishing a baby in a threatening manner?
And really, you're playing the 'slavery' card? Last I checked, there was an entire war fought over the abolition of slavery, so I don't think you have much of a leg to stand on.
That is my feeling too. It is too easy to parse the rantings of an insane "pastor" through the "Atheist V Theist" narrative and make it sound like this is a religion issue. It is not a religion issue. It is a legal issue, related to a mad man inciting people to violence, in a society where in many places the incitement to violence is a crime.
This is a matter for the director of public prosecutions, not for atheists to bash theists. And I hope justice, and the law, prevails.
I agree. As long as all Christians condemn this and people stop going to his church and soaking this up I'm ok. If he's allowed to preach this and the followers he has say they are Christian then that is no different than ISIS.
I'll wait and see.....being a non believer it all looks bat sheet crazy to me. Stupid scary religious people.
Yea it is very hard to get into the head space of believers sometimes when you are not one yourself. It simply looks "crazy" as you say.
If you parse their actions through the software THEY have running on their brain however it makes sense.
Take the parents who let their children die painfully of easily treatable conditions like diabetes for example. That to you and me likely looks not just crazy, but horrific, abusive and worse. To us it seems the worst thing in the world you could possibly do.
But GIVEN those parents genuinely believe there is a god, the god is against medical intervention, and the well being of their child's eternal soul is more important than a transient corporal existence here on earth............ the choice to let the child die painfully not only stops looking crazy.... but is the RIGHT thing to do.
Beliefs really do matter. They really do affect our actions in this world. The old adage rings true and can be applied to both the call to murder Abortion Doctors..... to the parents who let their children die painfully. "Good people will do good things, Bad people will do bad things.... but to get good people to do bad things.... that takes religion".
I agree. As long as all Christians condemn this and people stop going to his church and soaking this up I'm ok. If he's allowed to preach this and the followers he has say they are Christian then that is no different than ISIS.
The problem Christians face is that they want to claim primacy based on numbers. Putting aside the fact that in the United States the republic was founded on the principle of protecting minority religious perspectives from tyranny of the majority, and therefore numbers-based claims of primacy are nonsense regardless, this pastor makes clear that Christians actually don't have any kind of numerical advantage in fact, since Christians are radically different one from another.
The label "Christian", as critically important and valued it may be by those who claim it, is claimed on the basis of matters that are, in the context of the real world, absolutely meaningless. Put Pastor Dave Barley together with Rev. James Cone and let them try to hammer out an internally-consistent set of principles indicating what Christians, collectively, believe should be promulgated. They will be unable to do so. They both claim to believe the same (objectively inconsequential) things, but with regard to how those beliefs manifest into (objectively consequential) intentions for the conduct of one's life and especially the conduct of one's life in congress with others in society, there would be far less agreement between the two than there would be between Barley and (white supremacist) Tom Metzger, and far less agreement between the two than there would be between Cone and (liberal Rabbi) Susan Talve.
As hard as it is for Dominionsts to hear it, what allows them to retain the unjust Christian privilege that they yet still retain are a collection of disreputable behaviors practiced by many Christians in the United States, including apathy, selfishness, and callous disregard. If the default circumstance was not personal convenience and advantage for themselves as a reward for being Christian, so many would no longer be Christian. The erosion of religiousness in the United States is not a reflection of secularism actively drawing Christians away from their beliefs, but rather Christians detaching from the label because they saw past the inconsequential beliefs and objected to the offensive consequential intentions.
What can I say, Vizio, except to reiterate that Christians are still human; still flawed, passionate and often violent beings.
That someone is Christian is no guarantee that they're a good person. Christians have, in the past (the very recent past, in fact) gone to prison for negligent homicide for starving their children, or trying to 'beat infernal influences' out of them.
The fact of the matter is, there is no guarantee that a person's religion will have any bearing on their behavior. A Christian is just as capable of murder as anyone else; while I accept your premise on the basis that Christians shouldn't commit murder, it remains true that there is a wide difference between 'shouldn't' and 'won't'.
Which begs the question, "what's the point?"
If Christianity doesn't produce anything recognizable as better human behavior ... shouldn't we be asking what WOULD produce better behavior? Certainly, we should not be holding Christianity up as an example of how to produce better people or a superior morality.
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