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Why should I bother presenting evidence when I don't know what kind of evidence you will accept?
Jeff, as a Christian isn't it your moral duty to try and save people from eternal damnation?
There are many atheists who read this forum. They may need buffering types of evidince to convince, but if I remember correctly, you said that you had 100 different proofs.
Wouldn't it be better for the souls of the atheists if you would start presenting this evidence? Sure, many will not be persuaded, but some might. I will guarantee you that if I saw sufficient evidence of your God, I would convert. I only need one irrefutable proof.
Like I said over and over, prove the supernatural exists and then you have to at least account for the possibility that God exists. The science that you worship as your god no longer makes sense and anything is possible.
First of all, let's finally dispense with this crap about "worshiping science" once and for all. I know it's insanely difficult for some believers to wrap their minds around the fact that not everyone needs something to worship -- and that there's a HUGE difference between "relying" on science to have the most sensible explanations for our natural world ... and "worshiping" science. Refusing to accept magic as a serious answer to our questions does not constitute a "worship" of science. It's just that SOME of us have grown up since those days when a fun uncle could make a quarter appear from behind our ears and we actually believed it was magic.
Secondly, Jeff, I'm very curious how you delineate between what is science and what is divine magic. Do you see doctors as nothing more than shamans of God who use religious artifacts like stethoscopes and tongue depressors to aid in religious rituals designed to facilitate medical miracles from God? Or ... do you see doctors as educated practitioners of science using technology, proven knowledge, and evidence-based research to provide you with the best treatment currently available?
I ask this simply because I'd love to know if you think everything is a result of God's magic spells and whether or not you feel that science is ever correct. And if science IS correct about some things, how do YOU know, being a scientific layman at BEST, when science is correct and when it isn't? And, if you do not view doctors as God's shamans or believe that your computer is functioning based on magic or believe that God actively keeps skyscrapers standing and prevents bridges from collapsing (engineering is science, after all), what on earth makes you believe that science is correct in every OTHER aspect of your life while simultaneously denying science when it comes to evolution.
I'm also very curious how you would explain why science appears to be correct ... but somehow ISN'T correct. Are you suggesting that your God is having one big laugh at our expense by tricking us into thinking science is correct?
And finally, to address the original point in your quote -- there is no such thing as the "supernatural." There is only that which science has yet to explain. Fire was once considered "supernatural" as were comets, eclipses, plagues, and many diseases. Why would you keep making the same historical mistake over and over and over again by assuming every unsolved mystery needs God to solve it? Our ancestors have been doing that for tens of thousands of years. Just look at how often they've been right.
Typical. You have no answer that doesn't make you look like a hypocritical fool, so you ignore it. Do you realize that this is why people mess with you so much Jeff? You won't even answer valid questions when presented to you.
It really is sad that you have to ignore questions like that to be able to keep believing.
Likewise, if you believe the supernatural you have to at least account for the possibility that any number of the thousands of imagined gods exist. Do you acknowledge the possibility that Vishnu is real? If so, does that possibility mean anything in your day to day activities in any way? If not, then it is kinda hypocritical to expect anything different from anyone else.
Yes and I also have to account for the possibility that we are really existing in a Matrix test environment created by an alien race that views us as insects. The possibilities are endless. That's when you look at the probability factor combined with a degree of faith which you need in ALL things. If the supernatural events are consistently occurring in accordance with tenants of the Christian faith then the probability factor goes up and up.
OTOH, you have zip, nada, zilch, othing, uno minus uno evidence proving that God is imaginery. See that's a positive statement. Back it up.
Typical. You have no answer that doesn't make you look like a hypocritical fool, so you ignore it. Do you realize that this is why people mess with you so much Jeff? You won't even answer valid questions when presented to you.
It really is sad that you have to ignore questions like that to be able to keep believing.
Or maybe I just haven't had time to answer yet, every think of that? I just answered it, by the way. I think an apology is due, but I won't hold my breath.
Except no it is not, and worse you appear to still be maintaining this ongoing MO after many months that every _except you_ has to back up positive statements. But you are magically exempt from ever doing so.
Why is it one rule for you and one for everyone else exactly?
Or maybe I just haven't had time to answer yet, every think of that? I just answered it, by the way. I think an apology is due, but I won't hold my breath.
You shouldn't, because you won't get one. Nothing I said is untrue. You duck and dodge every question that doesn't validate your religion. Even your answer...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Yes and I also have to account for the possibility that we are really existing in a Matrix test environment created by an alien race that views us as insects. The possibilities are endless. That's when you look at the probability factor combined with a degree of faith which you need in ALL things. If the supernatural events are consistently occurring in accordance with tenants of the Christian faith then the probability factor goes up and up.
OTOH, you have zip, nada, zilch, othing, uno minus uno evidence proving that God is imaginery. See that's a positive statement. Back it up.
doesn't really answer the question. All you have said here is, "I believe it, and I find things that validate that, so therefore it is the most probable". What you fail to realize, is that EVERY SINGLE RELIGION believes that. So, according to you, all of them must be real/right, since that is the only proof or evidence that is required, which would be weird, right?
You shouldn't, because you won't get one. Nothing I said is untrue. You duck and dodge every question that doesn't validate your religion. Even your answer...
Well then I have no reason to waste my time responding to your ranting anymore, right? You will always just claim I am a dodger. You called me a hypocritical fool which was rude and insulting, but that's the ugliness that comes from your side. You will NEVER convince me you are right about anything with that kind of rhetoric, I can promise you that. Calling me a hypocritical fool was completely uncalled for.
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernbored
doesn't really answer the question. All you have said here is, "I believe it, and I find things that validate that, so therefore it is the most probable". What you fail to realize, is that EVERY SINGLE RELIGION believes that. So, according to you, all of them must be real/right, since that is the only proof or evidence that is required, which would be weird, right?
The weight of evidence tips the scales in favor of Jesus Christ as Lord which raises the probability factor. The only thing you are doing here is trying to set up an environment where it is impossible to prove that our faith is real and genuine.
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