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Okay, I can understand what you're saying, though it doesn't line up with what any other person claiming to practice Islam has told me (or maybe it does and I'm just not understanding it.)
For instance, your claim that the more a person knows of Muhammad, the more responsibility they have in performing Islam. I was under the impression that if you have been told about Islam and refuse it, you are doomed.
I guess it's a little unsettling to think that someone out there may have been declaring me Muslim when I was 3.
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That is partially correct. A person who has actually learned about Islam and refuses to accpt Islam through his own free will and with proper knowledge of Islam is doomed. But that does not mean someone can declare you or anyone else to be a Muslim. While it is very easy to become a Muslim, one needs to do so with full knowledge, complete sincerity and of their own free will. A person can not be coerced to be a Muslim by threat as then that would not be of their free will.
All Muslims or at least nearly all will agree we do not know who will go to hell hover we do believe all who perform Islam to the best of their ability and knowledge will reach Heaven.
In today's world with all the Anti-Islam hate sites and the Media attention on terrorists I believe it is quite difficult for a non-Muslims to acquire an accurate understanding of Islam. As Allaah(swt) is all just I am certain that will be taken into consideration on Judgement day. I do not believe anyone will go to Hell simply because they are not Muslim. They have to make a conscious effort, after learning the truth about Islam, to refuse to accept Islam.
We all are responsible for the results of our free will choices and as such we have an obligation to make the effort to learn what our choices are.
I do not believe anyone will go to Hell simply because they are not Muslim. They have to make a conscious effort, after learning the truth about Islam, to refuse to accept Islam.
We all are responsible for the results of our free will choices and as such we have an obligation to make the effort to learn what our choices are.
If there were a Hell (it is an absurd belief), I would be one of those who has learned about Islam and rejects it. That means that I would be going to hell. Fortunately, that is pure nonsense and primitive scaremongering with no substance. The reason I reject Islam is that I reject its prophet. The prophet of Islam is a raider and murderer who killed bringing his message, whereas the prophet of Christianity was tortured and murdered bringing His message. My money is on the non-murderer.
Quite correct, I learned I was always Muslim and never realized it.
In 2005 I had a personal experience that made me realize God(swt) does exist. I also came to the conclusion that Our role as human's is to learn that there is "Only one God(swt) who has no equals, partners or progeny and only he is to be worshiped" To do that is perming the Act of Islam and a person who performs Islam is a Muslim. So in effect I was always Muslim, but denied it durin My Atheist years and did not understand I was performing Islam during my Christian years, although in a misunderstood manner.
When we are honest with ourselves and truly accepting of who we are, it is obvious who we should be..
Quite correct, I learned I was always Muslim and never realized it.
In 2005 I had a personal experience that made me realize God(swt) does exist. I also came to the conclusion that Our role as human's is to learn that there is "Only one God(swt) who has no equals, partners or progeny and only he is to be worshiped" To do that is perming the Act of Islam and a person who performs Islam is a Muslim. So in effect I was always Muslim, but denied it durin My Atheist years and did not understand I was performing Islam during my Christian years, although in a misunderstood manner.
That sounds like garbage. Religion is a personal decision not something that you "learn" by secondhand account. I have been wandering all my life, but I don't think I'm going to "learn" that I'm "really" Jewish. Anyone who tells you otherwise is feeding you nonsense.
As for the rest about everyone being born Muslim, I find this a sickening lie. Human beings are not even born atheist, as religious antipathy is not a natural state. Human beings have inherent sense of wonder with regard to everything in the universe. Not rational apathy. And nobody is born a muslim. Islam is spread either through coercion, or people like you with a fallacious thought pattern that a clear mental construct or programming is somehow natural.
I grew up Episcopal, I was raised that way. I studied religions in college, and came to the conclusion that all religions are a reflection of the emotional state of the founder. That is, humans created their sense of worldview and this became what they saw.
Mystic not to mention a child molestor. I have no fear of muslim hell. A religion that needs to be propped up by violence has no legitimacy.
That sounds like garbage. Religion is a personal decision not something that you "learn" by secondhand account. I have been wandering all my life, but I don't think I'm going to "learn" that I'm "really" Jewish. Anyone who tells you otherwise is feeding you nonsense.
As for the rest about everyone being born Muslim, I find this a sickening lie. Human beings are not even born atheist, as religious antipathy is not a natural state. Human beings have inherent sense of wonder with regard to everything in the universe. Not rational apathy. And nobody is born a muslim. Islam is spread either through coercion, or people like you with a fallacious thought pattern that a clear mental construct or programming is somehow natural.
I grew up Episcopal, I was raised that way. I studied religions in college, and came to the conclusion that all religions are a reflection of the emotional state of the founder. That is, humans created their sense of worldview and this became what they saw.
Mystic not to mention a child molestor. I have no fear of muslim hell. A religion that needs to be propped up by violence has no legitimacy.
Islam is not an organized religion with any hierarchy of clergy or even any ordained clergy. It is the act of performing Islam. In many ways that is very individual, except for the 5 obligatory prayers.
We have no membership requirements as there is no membership. We do not have any obligation to join a Mosque or any group. We have no required religious instruction we have to participate in.
Islam is an act of submission, it is not an organization. Every person who makes an informed, free will choice to sincerely submit to God(swt) is performing Islam. A person who performs Islam is a Muslim.
Yes, all people are born Muslim and are Muslim until they make a free will choice to not be. As we are all under submission to God(swt) until we have the knowledge and ability to rebel against him.
After rejecting Christianity in my teens I adopted no other label other than "seeker" until about 10 years ago, in my mid-50s. Around then I came to understand that Animism comes closest to reflecting my belief system.
I thought I knew what Animism is, but I'm not so sure I really understand fully. You mind sharing a little?
I've tried giving myself a label, just to make life easier on this forum. Meh. Nothing really works. Closest I've been able to come is Agnostic Squared. (I don't know if it's possible to know that it's impossible to know whether or not God exists .) At the moment I'm in the "I don't know" category, but I do tend toward a belief in a panentheistic concept of a God which is life and love. Perhaps most importantly to me, there are many, many things I once whole-heartedly believed about God, as a life long fundamentalist-type Christian, that I came to realize are nonsensical. That was freeing.
So, my history is a lot like Mordant's, but since we are talking about labels, I list my experience in those terms. Note that these are all self-applied terms. Others probably would have used similar labels for me, but these are how I viewed myself...
Christian - I accepted Christ at age 4, and then again at age 7. I was concerned, at the ripe age of 7, that I might have had an imperfect understanding of what it meant to be saved at 4, so I better do it again to make sure it "took".
Baptist - Shortly after my second public profession of faith, I was baptized into a Southern Baptist Church, and identified as a Baptist.
"Spirit-filled" Believer - By late high-school, my family was part of an Assemblies of God congregation, where I spoke in tongues, as evidence of the infilling of the Holy Spirit. Even at the time, I was very uncomfortable with the experience, and was not sure that it was what was advertised on the tin, but I was desperately reaching out to God, and getting nothing in return, so I was trying anything that was advertised to draw me closer to Him, and to strengthen my walk.
"Gospel of Grace"Believer - During college, I found a message that helped. The idea that God's grace is not only sufficient, it is all that matters. I took comfort in the idea that God loved me no matter what I had done, or what I did, and that even as a believer, my sins and failures were in no way counted against me.
Reformed Christian - As I studied the ideas of Grace, I could not sustain this joy and liberty that came with knowing that God did it all, and that I did not contribute to my own salvation, without choosing one of two paths, Universalism or Calvinism. I could not accept the idea that Christianity itself, the practices and beliefs were ultimately meaningless, as God was going to save everyone anyway (not unlike the older brother of the prodigal son, or the workers who worked a full days pay for their coin ). So instead I embraced the idea that God chose who to save, that he selected "winners" and "losers" with no basis in their attitudes, behaviors, or beliefs. Who were we, the clay pots, to argue against the potter. It was an uncomfortable belief and it required a lot of rationalizing how the loving gracious God who I was trusting to save me could loving and graciously decide someone was bound for eternal torment just because. But it was that or go back to a view that my own failings as shortcomings could ruin my relationship with God.
Agnostic - In my late 20's, it all came to a head. I was struggling in my marriage, my wife was struggling with her faith, I was burning out as a Church musician/elder/volunteer, and I was still after 20 something years not receiving the things that God had promised to those who diligently seek him. No peace, no reassurance, no comfort. At this point I gave up. I prayed a last prayer to God, and told Him that I was really struggling, I was hurting and I needed Him, but that I was too tired to keep doing this. If He wanted me to keep on as I was, He needed to intervene. So then I closed my Bible, walked away from my ministries, and waited for God to move. I started to rethink everything about who I thought God was and what I expected Him to be.
Atheist - Suprisingly to me, things did get better! When I stopped praying, stopped agonizing about sin and redemption, stopped worrying about my commitments to the Church, stopped trying figure out God's will for my life, over a period of a year of so, I was at peace. My life was not perfect, but as I gave up God, I found that He had not been a positive force in my life for a really long time. My faith was actually toxic to me, and walking away was probably the most freeing thing I have ever experienced. Over the course of a couple years I got more comfortable with the idea that I didn't actually believe in a God, but it was a slow process to let that go. For the last 7 or 8 years I have been able to identify as an Atheist, and I am content at this point.
I do like a couple of quotes that popped up on this thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28
When we are honest with ourselves and truly accepting of who we are, it is obvious who we should be..
Quote:
Originally Posted by ptsum
So don't be in a hurry to rush into any kind of belief, take your time and when the time is right, you will know it.
I just wanted to point out that sometime the result of a patient and unhurried self examination and exploration of belief and faith results in unbelief, and that too can be a valid and meaningful destination, not just a place to wait until belief comes.
I've tried giving myself a label, just to make life easier on this forum. Meh. Nothing really works. Closest I've been able to come is Agnostic Squared. (I don't know if it's possible to know that it's impossible to know whether or not God exists .) At the moment I'm in the "I don't know" category, but I do tend toward a belief in a panentheistic concept of a God which is life and love. Perhaps most importantly to me, there are many, many things I once whole-heartedly believed about God, as a life long fundamentalist-type Christian, that I came to realize are nonsensical. That was freeing.
Start a thread to discuss your beliefs. I suspect that you are where the atheist blogger who converted was. She began to see Morality as an entity (Aka God) where you are at the stage where such concepts are on the edge of becoming seen as natural processes.
My initial experience began when I was 7, through no coaching or pressure from any one.
The ives of those that had put off God an were miserable failures in life shared their revelations, and the realization I was a sinner ,a thief an a liar, I knew I needed God's intervention in my life.
I was determined to make things right before things got so bad as others had ,and all their past regrets for the stupidity of their previous life.
Though I was young I enjoyed the company of older adults and the sharing of there experiences ,I still had a lot of growing up to do.
I learned from my older brothers mistakes and avoided those pitfalls and choose to seek after God more aggressively in my early teens doing correspondences courses and challenging the things people taught to the degree that dad and I discussed the sunday morning message during dinner most every sunday .challenging scriptures used and far fetched opinion and foundational values. Though dad had been to bible collage he took nothing for granted and we had a special bond.
In my late teens I found a booklet on seeking the leading of the Holy Spirit , and this was pivotal in getting me to seek God more earnestly in my prayer life and study and I was serious about knowing God's voice in my life .
Miracles are common in our life and seeing answered prayer was nothing new but I wanted more I wanted to walk in obedience, and that is what changed every thing .
More than knowing the power of Jesus name; healing the sick, and casting out demons, and altering the weather, even making wild life respect and obey me, I learned that personal obedience is God's design all along for men that love Him. Matthew 7;21,22,23,
Giving God govern in my life freed me in so many ways and I know the yoke Jesus was talking about.
Having the Father's direction in my life ,via the Holy Spirit " i under stand things more from "His perspective", rather than a selfish, human, academic one .
God does things that defy science, hence man will never understand Him.
I understand the things Jesus taught with greater clarity ,and have God's guidance in many different facets in my life.
Blessings fallow obedience ,in ways beyond any thing I might have imagined, God prepares the way so far ahead of me.
I know this for a fact ,
God does not support lies, or deception , and when I dared to deceive , God not only with held blessing, but things had to be resolved .
God holds me accountable .
Jesus said, the cities of Nineve will rise up in judgment against some of the cities Jesus preached in, and was rejected by them. Luke 11;32
If this is so, Christians that have not made thing right with others, will face them come judgment day.
God holds all men accountable, forgiven of God or not . Matthew 5;23,
Woe to those that have misled souls to them selves and their own theology, in stead of Jesus.
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.) At the moment I'm in the "I don't know" category, but I do tend toward a belief in a panentheistic concept of a God which is life and love. Perhaps most importantly to me, there are many, many things I once whole-heartedly believed about God, as a life long fundamentalist-type Christian, that I came to realize are nonsensical. That was freeing.
). So instead I embraced the idea that God chose who to save, that he selected "winners" and "losers" with no basis in their attitudes, behaviors, or beliefs. Who were we, the clay pots, to argue against the potter. It was an uncomfortable belief and it required a lot of rationalizing how the loving gracious God who I was trusting to save me could loving and graciously decide someone was bound for eternal torment just because. But it was that or go back to a view that my own failings as shortcomings could ruin my relationship with God.
