Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I often wonder why Christians don't have issues with other scientific theories besides evolution. Never hear them complain about germ theory, gravitational theory and other theories with solid evidence behind them. My thoughts are they only seem to have problems with those theories that seem to contradict the Bible.
Good point. I don't understand what the big issue with evolution is. Evolution isn't even about how anything got here. Religion is supposed to about spiritual matters right?
Perhaps evolution challenges the notion that we are special snowflakes, like somehow superior or something. Now you say we come from a monkey! Horror! We're not like monkeys or 'animals'! We are not animals! We don't eat, sleep, pee and sh1t! Oh yes, and we don't mate with each other like the animals do!? We just .... never mind.
Oh, YEC's do have an issue with the Theory of Plate Tectonics. When they've actually heard of it and understand what it entails.
I suspect they will hate the the theory or relativity when they realize it precludes the possibility of God having created the universe. Or even our galaxy for that matter. Not in six days anyway. Nor even six months. Or six years.
Good point. I don't understand what the big issue with evolution is. Evolution isn't even about how anything got here. Religion is supposed to about spiritual matters right?
To an extent they mistake evolution as an explanation of origins, which it isn't. But the main problem is that it contradicts literalist interpretations of the creation account, which says that all species were spoken into existence more or less instantly, whereas evolution says they appeared gradually over vast time frames. That, and that the Bible establishes human history at a compressed 6K years or so, whereas evolution gives it a lot more breathing room. And unless you adopt the so-called gap theory, which is highly dubious even theologically and textually, you also end up with conflict concerning the age of the earth -- a few thousand years or a few billion.
Also as humanity's perspective slowly expands into the cosmos as we explore and learn about it, creationists have to cope with the fact that it's not just a young earth their dogma requires, but a young universe.
Many of the "thought" leaders of YEC are actively working to explain away things like the presence of organic molecules way out in the Oort cloud. When science eventually discovers life on other worlds, their heads will explode, because they are (needlessly in my view, as they are extrapolating way too much from scripture) dedicated to the uniqueness of life on Earth. If that life is discovered anywhere within the solar system they will explain it as having originated on Earth, and was ejected by the Flood cataclysm.
What an inerrantist can't abide is anything, including facts, that contradicts dogma.
I often wonder why Christians don't have issues with other scientific theories besides evolution. Never hear them complain about germ theory, gravitational theory and other theories with solid evidence behind them. My thoughts are they only seem to have problems with those theories that seem to contradict the Bible.
That's just it. They (and by 'they' I mean the literalists, the fundamentalists - not Christians as a whole) mainly have a problem with the inconvenient ones.
When their religious dogma runs into science - rigorously tested science - it's the ancient-book-derived dogma that wins and the established fact that gets chucked.
This is how dogmas and dogmatic people - not just religious dogmas and their adherents - operate.
Religion is based on a presumed source of ultimate authority; for fundamentalist Christians the authority is the Protestant Bible. Therefore anything that seems to contradict the Bible must be rejected. Germ theory and gravity don't appear to contradict anything in the Bible, but evolution certainly does.
Religion is based on a presumed source of ultimate authority; for fundamentalist Christians the authority is the Protestant Bible. Therefore anything that seems to contradict the Bible must be rejected. Germ theory and gravity don't appear to contradict anything in the Bible, but evolution certainly does.
The only reason most science doesn't contradict the Bible is that the Bible, despite supposedly being divinely inspired by an all-knowing deity, lacks a conceptual framework that would even address scientific issues, except by accident.
On the other hand, when the Bible expresses ancient Hebrew cosmology, depicting the sky as a dome with foundations in the earth, etc., why don't inerrantists complain that modern astronomy and astrophysics contradict this? I think it's because modern inerrantists project their current understanding of the cosmos onto these passing mentions in the Bible and it makes it easy for them to regard them as flowery metaphors. Since these mentions are incidental (and helped along by being mentioned in poetic wisdom passages rather than in any sort of story narrative), no dogma stands or falls on whether you take "firmament" or "foundations of the earth" literally, and a modern reader just isn't likely to take them literally anyway.
But the creation account is another matter. Fundamentalist identity is based on a literal reading of the creation and flood accounts and has historically accepted, at least in general terms, Usher's reckoning of the chronology of Biblical events. That is probably the key: does the science violate my group identity? Because if a fundamentalist's group identity is threatened, so is their confidence in their eternal destiny, the benefits of belonging to the group, etc. This makes it an existential threat which must be disposed of by any means possible.
Religion is based on a presumed source of ultimate authority; for fundamentalist Christians the authority is the Protestant Bible. Therefore anything that seems to contradict the Bible must be rejected. Germ theory and gravity don't appear to contradict anything in the Bible, but evolution certainly does.
Science is based on a premise of man's capability for reasoning and observation being the ultimate authority. Atheists have unshakable faith in science because that's really the only foundation you got.
The irony is that such a faith is the true limitation of human knowledge, not belief in the Bible. In the scientific world, everything must have a reason, a cause, and origin. Things that are true must be repeatable. And when you declare something is scientific fact then you are even betraying very principles of science which teaches that science is always evolving and changing positions based on new evidence. You can tell me that evolution is 100% fact yet it is still possible that a future discovery could erase everything that was claimed to be fact.
Is it a fact that if you fall from 47 stories, then human body will die? A fact should NEVER change, but I read this story today of a man who proved otherwise:
Quote:
“If you are a believer in miracles, this would be one,” said Dr. Philip S. Barie, the chief of the division of critical care at New York-Presbyterian Hospital/Weill Cornell Medical Center in Manhattan, where Mr. Moreno, 37, is being treated.
“We are very pleased — dare I say astonished? — at the level of recovery that this patient has enjoyed so far,” he added, “and although there is more work to be done, we are very optimistic for his prospects for survival.”
As Christians, we can accept the role science plays in making sense of the physical realm. But we can also accept that there is a reality that doesn't confirm to those laws as well. We don't have to limit our knowledge to the physical. But in this example, the atheist will scramble to come up with some vague explanation like this guy had a different DNA structure or something.
I often wonder why Christians don't have issues with other scientific theories besides evolution. Never hear them complain about germ theory, gravitational theory and other theories with solid evidence behind them. My thoughts are they only seem to have problems with those theories that seem to contradict the Bible.
Why ? Why is because our ancestors have taught us for about 65 generations
Jesus is coming again, to restore all creation to God's righteousness, and that
when we die, we can go to be with him in Heaven.
What of those things contradicts any of the Christian creed ? nothing.
Those things are just as anything else in the material world. Outer space
is just another ocean, Earth is an island.
Science is based on a premise of man's capability for reasoning and observation being the ultimate authority. Atheists have unshakable faith in science because that's really the only foundation you got.
The irony is that such a faith is the true limitation of human knowledge, not belief in the Bible. In the scientific world, everything must have a reason, a cause, and origin. Things that are true must be repeatable. And when you declare something is scientific fact then you are even betraying very principles of science which teaches that science is always evolving and changing positions based on new evidence. You can tell me that evolution is 100% fact yet it is still possible that a future discovery could erase everything that was claimed to be fact.
Is it a fact that if you fall from 47 stories, then human body will die? A fact should NEVER change, but I read this story today of a man who proved otherwise:
As Christians, we can accept the role science plays in making sense of the physical realm. But we can also accept that there is a reality that doesn't confirm to those laws as well. We don't have to limit our knowledge to the physical. But in this example, the atheist will scramble to come up with some vague explanation like this guy had a different DNA structure or something.
Once again you assume that all scientists are atheists and atheists are into science. Some atheists are clueless about science and some Christians are wonderful scientists. And you are also misrepresenting what a fact and a theory is in science. At least learn what a fact and a theory are in science. And yes if something comes up that disproves the theory of evolution the theory will be discarded or amended or a new one postulated to replace it. That is how science works. Those on this forum who support evolution would all agree with the statement that if evolution was disproved we would accept it. Your statements that it is a lie or that the Bible says differently are of course not acceptable disproof of ToE.
I think that if person is going to fall from a 47 story building the assumption is that he will die, I do not know it is a scientific fact. Do you know for a certainly that science claims as a fact that a fall of 47 stories is fatal? Is it also facts for a 46 or 48 story building?
You make a lot of claims about atheism and science, most of which only demonstrate your lack of understanding on both subjects. By the way facts is science are facts for atheists, Christians, Jews, Muslims, Buddhists, Taoist and all other religions and lack of religion.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
