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So I googled "which pagan gods offered salvation through belief in him -christianity -jesus" eliminating christianity and jesus and still I got references to Paul and Lutheran Baptist Church and other sundry Christianized references. I'm looking for a website that shows gods outside Christianity that Christ may have modeled on. I know Krishna said that salvation came only through belief in him:
But that's as far as I can get. I know there were other pagan gods that offered salvation through them alone but I cannot find a list. Can anyone help?
Especially see the concept of the "Dying-and-Rising God" (though the issues are complex and still debated), and also Egyptian parallels.
As for the concept of "salvation" - that depends on what the concept implies. Many ancient Near Eastern cultures had a belief in one supreme god that offered protection to a particular people or city (Yahweh for Israel; Marduk for Babylon; Assur for Assyria, etc.) - though not eternal life. Most of the benefits were earthly rewards. The concept of an afterlife among Semites arose after exposure to Greek Hellenism, most likely. So I think you may have to specify what type of "salvation" you're thinking of, or broaden your definition.
Sorry, it's been a while since I studied this Jesus-precursor stuff, and I never got too much into it.
Especially see the concept of the "Dying-and-Rising God" (though the issues are complex and still debated), and also Egyptian parallels.
As for the concept of "salvation" - that depends on what the concept implies. Many ancient Near Eastern cultures had a belief in one supreme god that offered protection to a particular people or city (Yahweh for Israel; Marduk for Babylon; Assur for Assyria, etc.) - though not eternal life. Most of the benefits were earthly rewards. The concept of an afterlife among Semites arose after exposure to Greek Hellenism, most likely. So I think you may have to specify what type of "salvation" you're thinking of, or broaden your definition.
Sorry, it's been a while since I studied this Jesus-precursor stuff, and I never got too much into it.
Well, thanks much for that. Dying/rising gods are a dime a dozen back in those times--Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis and Attis, Dionysus---but I don't think they were promulgated as savior gods. The Jesus myth (although he may have been a real person) is actually the first god that is claimed to be a savior, though that is easily attributable to Paul's theology, and the possible reasons for Paul preaching Jesus as a savior god as well as a dying/rising (although according to Richard Carrier's "On the Historicity of Jesus" Jesus actually was a spirit and his crucifixion and resurrection were in the spirit realm) are as varied as they are bizarre i.e. he was having no luck with the Jews, was actually hated by the Jews and so he invented this idea of being called by God to preach to the Gentiles in order to score more points than the apostles he genuinely hated (James and Peter for sure).
The type of salvation I'm referring to is cookie-cutter Christian salvation i.e. "I died for your sins, I redeemed you, therefore you must believe in me in order to obtain salvation from your sins." Far as I know only Krishna taught this and he comes 1000 years before Jesus. Is it possible Jesus is just a Jewish version of Indian theology?
Well, thanks much for that. Dying/rising gods are a dime a dozen back in those times--Osiris, Tammuz, Adonis and Attis, Dionysus---but I don't think they were promulgated as savior gods. The Jesus myth (although he may have been a real person) is actually the first god that is claimed to be a savior, though that is easily attributable to Paul's theology, and the possible reasons for Paul preaching Jesus as a savior god as well as a dying/rising (although according to Richard Carrier's "On the Historicity of Jesus" Jesus actually was a spirit and his crucifixion and resurrection were in the spirit realm) are as varied as they are bizarre i.e. he was having no luck with the Jews, was actually hated by the Jews and so he invented this idea of being called by God to preach to the Gentiles in order to score more points than the apostles he genuinely hated (James and Peter for sure).
The type of salvation I'm referring to is cookie-cutter Christian salvation i.e. "I died for your sins, I redeemed you, therefore you must believe in me in order to obtain salvation from your sins." Far as I know only Krishna taught this and he comes 1000 years before Jesus. Is it possible Jesus is just a Jewish version of Indian theology?
I've always assumed that the "savior god" aspect of Christianity came from the Messianic aspect of Judaism. The Messiah was supposed to save the Jews from whatever they needed saving from.
Since Jesus didn't do any of that, but he was still supposed to be the Messiah, they needed a quick redirect.
So Jesus went from being the savior of the nation to being a "personal savior".
However, the Krishna angle is an interesting one as well.
Did not some AmerInd tribes have the concept of the "Happy Hunting Ground"? (I don't know much about their religious practices, so I'm just pulling it out of my...hat.)
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And for all of the off-topic Jesus pushers- Let the man(?) ask his question. This isn't the 'Jesus Only' forum, give it a rest and give him a break.
I've always assumed that the "savior god" aspect of Christianity came from the Messianic aspect of Judaism. The Messiah was supposed to save the Jews from whatever they needed saving from.
Since Jesus didn't do any of that, but he was still supposed to be the Messiah, they needed a quick redirect.
So Jesus went from being the savior of the nation to being a "personal savior".
However, the Krishna angle is an interesting one as well.
Jesus Christ Super Warrior/Savior of Israel from the Romans to Jesus Christ Super Sacrifice for our sins is exactly right.
I've always assumed that the "savior god" aspect of Christianity came from the Messianic aspect of Judaism. The Messiah was supposed to save the Jews from whatever they needed saving from.
Since Jesus didn't do any of that, but he was still supposed to be the Messiah, they needed a quick redirect.
So Jesus went from being the savior of the nation to being a "personal savior".
However, the Krishna angle is an interesting one as well.
There are also themes of the Israelite god saving individuals (and other ANE gods) - though usually from earthly perils. There is some debate whether the Hebrew Bible might possibly have a few passages that suggest a positive afterlife to those faithful, though Qoheleth (Ecclesiastes) rejected this idea. That's why I wanted to know what type of "salvation" Thrillobyte was referring to. But definitely, the Messianic aspect was the precursor - though Greek Hellenism took it and turned it into a savior of "eternal life". Other influences may have helped, as well - the Mystery Cults of the Graeco-Roman world, for example.
There is no other false god that became man and died on a cross to satisfy the wrath of God. Only Christianity involves a God that redeems humans, versus humans having to work their way to HIM.
So I googled "which pagan gods offered salvation through belief in him -christianity -jesus" eliminating christianity and jesus and still I got references to Paul and Lutheran Baptist Church and other sundry Christianized references. I'm looking for a website that shows gods outside Christianity that Christ may have modeled on. I know Krishna said that salvation came only through belief in him:
But that's as far as I can get. I know there were other pagan gods that offered salvation through them alone but I cannot find a list. Can anyone help?
Zoroastrianism for one offers numerous features of belief which will be instantly recognizable to Christians, but which were not originally contained in Judaism.
Wikipedia
Zoroastrianism
Renovation and judgment
Zoroastrianism also includes beliefs about the renovation of the world and individual judgment (cf. general and particular judgment), including the resurrection of the dead.
Individual judgment at death is by the Bridge of Judgment, which each human must cross, facing a spiritual judgment. Humans' actions under their free will determine the outcome. One is either greeted at the bridge by a beautiful, sweet-smelling maiden or by an ugly, foul-smelling old woman. The maiden leads the dead safely across the bridge to the Amesha Spenta Good Mind, who carries the dead to paradise. The old woman leads the dead down a bridge that narrows until the departed falls off into the abyss of hell.
Zoroastrian hell is reformative; punishments fit the crimes, and souls do not rest in eternal damnation. Hell contains foul smells and evil food, and souls are packed tightly together although they believe they are in total isolation.
In Zoroastrian eschatology, a 3,000-year struggle between good and evil will be fought, punctuated by evil's final assault. During the final assault, the sun and moon will darken and humankind will lose its reverence for religion, family, and elders. The world will fall into winter, and Angra Mainyu's most fearsome miscreant, Azi Dahaka, will break free and terrorize the world.
The final savior of the world, Saoshyant, will be born to a virgin impregnated by the seed of Zoroaster while bathing in a lake. Saoshyant will raise the dead – including those in both heaven and hell – for final judgment, returning the wicked to hell to be purged of bodily sin. Next, all will wade through a river of molten metal in which the righteous will not burn. Heavenly forces will ultimately triumph over evil, rendering it forever impotent. Saoshyant and Ahura Mazda will offer a bull as a final sacrifice for all time, and all humans will become immortal. Mountains will again flatten and valleys will rise; heaven will descend to the moon, and the earth will rise to meet them both.
"Although a definite borrowing is still impossible to prove, the resemblances between Zoroasterianism and Judaism are numerous and probably took shape during the exile. First of all the figure of Satan, originally a servant of God appointed by Him as His prosecutor, came more and more to resemble Ahriman, the enemy of God. Secondly,the figure of the Messiah, originally a future king of Israel who would save his people from oppression evolved,in Deutro-Isaiah for instance, into a universal Savior very similar to the Iranian Saoshant(Savior). Thirdly, the entities that came to surround Yahweh, such as His wisdom and His spirit are comparable to the arch angels escorting Ahura Mazda; other points of comparison include the doctrine of the millenia; the Last Judgement; the heavenly book in which human actions are inscribed; the resurrection, the final transformation of the Earth; paradise of Heaven on Earth or in Heaven. Christianity seems to owe many features to Iran over and above those inherited from Judaism. Among others are probably the belief in guardian angels, resurrection and the heavenly journey of the soul."(Encyclopedia Americana,"Zoroasterianism" pp.813-815).
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