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Delusion is not optimism. Realism is not pessimism.
Atheism has nothing to do with pessimism. I am an idealist and also often a pessimist BECAUSE I am too often a realist.
Atheists come in all different shades, optimist, pessimist, we are all different and individual. Our lack of belief does not make us a cohesive group. We dare to think for ourselves and make of life what we all see in it.
Our life experiences are all different and as such our personalities are too. Go figure.
I am a pessimist because of my life's experience, yet I still dare to dream of better things to come. Without a deity involved. My faith is in Humanity not some made-up creature from an over fertile imagination.
I don't rely on fairy-tales to keep me happy. I look at life for what it is . Not for what I hope it will be one day when I die.
Life is now. Not in some distant nebulous time in a place of your god's choosing.
Please do not attribute personality traits to people simply because they don't share your spiritual leanings or religious values.
to be fair, you did just that, inferring that religious people believe in fairy tales and delusions, and that they don't think for themselves. you know as well as i do that there are rational, philisophical believers, just as there are deluded, blind-following0the-blind athiests.
i don't remember who said it, but just a few posts back someone commented on the irresponsible nature of making broad statements. making judgments of an entire group of people based off of emotional experiences is probably the largest contributor to hostility that i see in these threads. i post about logical fallacies so often i think people must be getting tired of reading it.
off this soapbox and on to another...
i am a christian. i have done missionary work. i have done charitable service. i remember the feeling of hoping to bring people to conversion. in some ways, i think it is natural, merely a desire to show people what you have and hope that they prescribe to the same way of thinking. i believe that i have seen that not just in religious groups and charities, but even in the secular ones. i think as i said that it is natural. but i also think that it needs to be monitored and controlled.
i try very hard to separate my charity from my desire for missionary opportunities. i think as i have gotten older that i have decided that the best way for me to be a missionary is to live my beliefs. if people notice and care, great. if not, still great.
i have worked hand in hand with charities from other churches, and charities from secular organizations, and i think that the majority of people in all groups are motivated by the same things: a simple, pure desire to help their brothers and sisters.
i know of many religious volunteers, and quite a few religious programs that are helping people across the world, including africa, regardless of conversion or lack of conversion. so i think that whoever posted that all christian charities in africa give aid only to those who convert is falling into the same irresponsible, blind generalization that we have witnessed time and again on these threads, from both sides of the religious-or-not struggle.
anyway, i think that if people would recognize, and *respect* others despite their beliefs, creeds, superstitions, dogmas, nationalities, ancestral histories, and skin color, we would be happier ourselves, and would be able to work together for the common good of the millions--no, billions, out there that are struggling everyday for the basic comforts that we take for granted.
No pessimism is a negative view of the world. Optimism is a positive one. I have a positive view of the world, which makes me optimistic. You should learn the correct definitions before you throw out assumptions like that.
A positive atheist.
Sounds to me like you don't even have knowledge of that which you believe. I'm not talking about whether YOU are optimistic about "things" but whether your belief system or lack of it is born from pessimism or optimism. Unbelief is pessimistic in nature, and belief is optimistic in nature. Argue with Webster and your English teacher...not me.
American Heritage Dictionary - (nō) Pronunciation Key
adv. Used to express refusal, denial, disbelief, emphasis, or disagreement.
American Heritage Dictionary - (yěs) Pronunciation Key
adv. It is so; as you say or ask. Used to express affirmation, agreement, positive confirmation, or consent.
American Heritage Dictionary - (yěs) Pronunciation Key
adv. It is so; as you say or ask. Used to express affirmation, agreement, positive confirmation, or consent.
Synonyms from Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus:
Positive, assured, confident, optimism, sure.
Of course everybody knows that "atheism" is another word for "no" while "Christian" means "yes".
You see, the Thesaurus contains clear answers to any spiritual questions one may have.
Also, no need to understand what you believe - if you are not a Christian, you can rely on a helpful Christian like JViello to go ahead and define your beliefs for you.
Yea forget that whole "cross" thing. Perhaps they are secular now, but the organization was started as a Christian based operation to bring relief to those suffering.
Actually it wasn't. It was founded based on the Swiss inspired International Red Cross Movement. The emblem was borrowed from the Swiss flag (with colors reversed) because of the historically neutral nature of the country. So it has always been secular.
There appears to be a little controversy over this "major new study". Here's a brief comment from the internet:
Whenever we get into statistics and classifying people according to political views there's alot of wiggle room. I don't think I would take a report like this and accept it at face value, it's much more complex and people generally don't fall neatly into categories that can be directly placed into columns and charts. I know that simplistic idea is appealing to book publishers and many readers but it's obvious that data is being manipulated to promote a particular point of view and is more of a marketing tool for the author and publisher than a factual representation of how American liberals or conservatives really donate money to worthy causes.
Thanks for the link, but I think the book presents facts that have a pretty compelling consensus using the following sources:
2000 Social Capital Community Benchmark Survey
2001, 2003 Panel Study of Income Dynamics
1996-2004 General Social Survey
1998-2001 International Social Survey Programme
2004 Maxwell Poll
2000 Giving and Volunteering Survey
2001 America Gives Survey
I realize this will not please the Howard Dean crowd, but the "tax the rich" crew can't yell loud enough that more money needs to go to Americans in need. Just not their money.
I think, until data is shown otherwise, Christians have a case. Remember, it's not about politics. here's what the author stated, "The book does show that conservatives as a group tend to give more to charity in a lot of measurable ways (contrary to a lot of stereotypes), but I go out of my way to show that this is not because of politics per se. In point of fact, religious liberals give as much as religious conservatives, and secular conservatives tend to give less than all the other groups. But there are simply lots and lots of religious conservatives in America. "
Sounds to me like you don't even have knowledge of that which you believe. I'm not talking about whether YOU are optimistic about "things" but whether your belief system or lack of it is born from pessimism or optimism. Unbelief is pessimistic in nature, and belief is optimistic in nature. Argue with Webster and your English teacher...not me.
American Heritage Dictionary - (nō) Pronunciation Key
adv. Used to express refusal, denial, disbelief, emphasis, or disagreement.
American Heritage Dictionary - (yěs) Pronunciation Key
adv. It is so; as you say or ask. Used to express affirmation, agreement, positive confirmation, or consent.
Synonyms from Roget's New Millennium™ Thesaurus:
Positive, assured, confident, optimism, sure.
Nice job. Posting with no source. Now it's my turn.
[SIZE=-1]SYLLABICATION:[/SIZE]op·ti·mism[SIZE=-1]PRONUNCIATION:[/SIZE] pt-mzm[SIZE=-1]NOUN:[/SIZE]1. A tendency to expect the best possible outcome or dwell on the most hopeful aspects of a situation: “There is a touch of optimism in every worry about one's own moral cleanliness” (Victoria Ocampo). 2.Philosophya. The doctrine, asserted by Leibnitz, that this world is the best of all possible worlds. b. The belief that the universe is improving and that good will ultimately triumph over evil
Source:optimism. The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language: Fourth Edition. 2000.
Oh, and here's another one.
optimism
Main Entry: op·ti·mism Pronunciation: \ˈäp-tə-ˌmi-zəm\ Function: noun Etymology: French optimisme, from Latin optimum, noun, best, from neuter of optimus best; akin to Latin ops power — more at opulent Date: 1759 1 : a doctrine that this world is the best possible world 2 : an inclination to put the most favorable construction upon actions and events or to anticipate the best possible outcome
— op·ti·mist \-mist\ noun
— op·ti·mis·tic \ˌäp-tə-ˈmis-tik\ adjective
— op·ti·mis·ti·cal·ly \-ti-k(ə-)lē\ adverb
Source:optimism - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary
Atheism doesn't fit the criteria for any of those definitions. Nice try though. Throwing out the old atheists are negative and unhappy rant.
Atheists come in all different shades, optimist, pessimist, we are all different and individual. Our lack of belief does not make us a cohesive group. We dare to think for ourselves and make of life what we all see in it.
Our life experiences are all different and as such our personalities are too. Go figure.
And Christians can't be like this. Instead were ALL put into the Catholic,Baptist,Protestant etc. bowl. Or is it the "BIG CHRISTIAN POT"!!
to be fair, you did just that, inferring that religious people believe in fairy tales and delusions, and that they don't think for themselves. you know as well as i do that there are rational, philisophical believers, just as there are deluded, blind-following0the-blind athiests.
i don't remember who said it, but just a few posts back someone commented on the irresponsible nature of making broad statements. making judgments of an entire group of people based off of emotional experiences is probably the largest contributor to hostility that i see in these threads. i post about logical fallacies so often i think people must be getting tired of reading it.
off this soapbox and on to another...
i am a christian. i have done missionary work. i have done charitable service. i remember the feeling of hoping to bring people to conversion. in some ways, i think it is natural, merely a desire to show people what you have and hope that they prescribe to the same way of thinking. i believe that i have seen that not just in religious groups and charities, but even in the secular ones. i think as i said that it is natural. but i also think that it needs to be monitored and controlled.
i try very hard to separate my charity from my desire for missionary opportunities. i think as i have gotten older that i have decided that the best way for me to be a missionary is to live my beliefs. if people notice and care, great. if not, still great.
i have worked hand in hand with charities from other churches, and charities from secular organizations, and i think that the majority of people in all groups are motivated by the same things: a simple, pure desire to help their brothers and sisters.
i know of many religious volunteers, and quite a few religious programs that are helping people across the world, including africa, regardless of conversion or lack of conversion. so i think that whoever posted that all christian charities in africa give aid only to those who convert is falling into the same irresponsible, blind generalization that we have witnessed time and again on these threads, from both sides of the religious-or-not struggle.
anyway, i think that if people would recognize, and *respect* others despite their beliefs, creeds, superstitions, dogmas, nationalities, ancestral histories, and skin color, we would be happier ourselves, and would be able to work together for the common good of the millions--no, billions, out there that are struggling everyday for the basic comforts that we take for granted.
peace. aaron out.
I know I was being patronising. I did it on purpose. In response to his /her patronising tone. It really isn't aimed at most Christians for whom I do have a great deal of respect despite our diverging opinions. I was trying to instil a sense of what it is like to be put in neat littles boxes and categories because of a lack of religious belief.
I did not say all Christian charities were forcing people to convert but in my personal experience a lot do and a lot do it because they believe God wants them to.
I was merely pointing out that Atheists do things purely because it's the right thing with no thought of any heavenly rewards at all.
A friend of mine is going to work in Laos as a volunteer with some poor villages and taking a few hundred bibles with him. I find this slightly disturbing. He went to China a couple of years back and was meeting people in secret to hand over some bibles.
It's like helping the poor brings more benefits if they convert or at least learn of Christian ways. It never seems to enter some people's radar that not every one wants to hear "the word" and that a lot of vulnerable people will convert and be "amen" type of people because of either gratitude or fear that help might be withdrawn from them.
Surely God should be telling those people about his word ?
Most certainly, it was. You said in your original post:
ORIGINAL POST BY 3~Shepherds: I'm just wondering, do just as many non-Christians feel the need to step up and help the less fortunate, here in the U.S. or go to another country and aid the people. Maybe, you go to these places also, I would like to hear your story...................This is what I asked.
Quote:
Which is asking to show representations of non-Christians doing charitable works. Which I certainly did.
You did and Thank You, I was also just looking for stories.
Quote:
Because you also asked me for examples of charity work that I personally do. I don't think that's anyone's business, because if you're bragging about your charity work, you're doing it for the wrong reasons.
Your mis understanding me. If you don't want to answer then by all means don't. This is your personal business!!!!!
Like I said I was looking for stories did you read GSCTroop, what an experience and of course he helped, there were humans in need you don't have to be religious to help each other.
I wasn't asking anyone to brag, I honestly thought I would hear more stories of human nature at it's BEST.
Quote:
Look at my first two responses to you. Cordial, logical, informative. You're the one that became aggressive, as evidenced by this very quote. You've also jumped on a couple other people in here. I had assumed up to this point that it was due to some sort of language barrier, because it appears as if English is not your first language, so I was cutting you some slack by not mentioning it.
I'm real sorry if I came off that way and you didn't need to be rude here!! At one point I believe I got a couple of you confused. Hey, it happens I'm sure not to you though.
I was being thrown a lot and that's all I have to say. Hopefully, your a person of understanding!!
Quote:
We're mad? When? Where? You're the only one going off on a rant here. Take the blue pill and it will all go away.
Sorry, I only take "PURPLE PILLS". Thanks, anyways.
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Perhaps they are secular now, but the organization was started as a Christian based operation to bring relief to those suffering.
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