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Oh, that's right. Thanks for the clarification. My next guess was going to the the Book of Mormon but Islam makes more sense just by its huge and growing numbers alone.
I don't buy the hallucination explanation. For one thing, I would think a hallucination requires some level of brain activity and yet these people are often brain dead. Yet, they would at least need enough brain function to create and retain a memory of the hallucination. Even that strikes me as odd because whenever I have a dream, I rarely can retain it after I wake up. An hallucination would require some change in the brain chemistry.
I'm just going by the paucity of people that have these experiences. Parnia's numbers peg them at just about 8% or so, so it's an extremely small number of people. Parnia says most people forget them. I can't figure that. Something this momentous from the way the few who remember them do describe them, this is something nobody could ever forget. If these were real then everybody who "clinically died" would have them. But they don't. I've read the stuff skeptical doctors explain:
Quote:
When the heart suddenly stops, blood flow to the brain stops and causes death in a human within minutes. A likely assumption would be that, without a fresh supply of oxygen, any sort of brain activity would go flat. But after the rats went into cardiac arrest, Mashour and his colleagues observed the opposite happening.
“We saw a window of activity with certain signatures typically associated with conscious processing,” he said.
Those signatures include heightened communication among the different parts of the brain, actively seen in an awake state. Mashour speculates this could be a marker of consciousness — in which the brain integrates disparate aspects of the world, like visual in one area and auditory in another.
“The brain kind of gets it all together so we have this unified, seamless experience,” he said.
In the rats, this connectivity went above and beyond the levels seen during the awake state — which could possibly explain the hypervivid, “realer-than-real” perceptions reported close to death, Borjigin said.
I have no idea if this guy is lying with theoretical mumbo-jumbo or or if what he says is totally right. Sounds very hi-tech so I have no way of arguing it on scientific grounds. I'm stymied. So I'm forced to accept it on grounds of scientific ignorance and that's dangerous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffbase40
Second, even though there are differences in theses experiences, why do they almost always involve the afterlife? I never hear of a NDE experience where the person suddenly found themselves on a farm tending cows or they are back in school not wearing any clothes.
Well it's the same dilemma as with UFOS. How do you prove a personal experience? You can't. You have to experience yourself. Add to the mix that there are hoaxers out there selling fake stories because sensationalism sells. Just ask Mike Warnke.
That's the thing: these experiences are diverse that, yes I have heard of people saying they found themselves in a beautiful meadow with people in real clothing walking by and greeting them and then a train goes by and people's faces can be seen against the windows and the person having the NDE gets on the train.
Quote:
[SIZE=3]I was in something kind of a train… I did not see myself but knew that I was riding leaning back in a train at high speed.. I was very frightened of the speed, the lights passing by very fast by my side…I saw thousands of light spirals and thought…”I am dying” ...I felt my body glued to that seat and saw a very strong light with a golden frame at the end of the tunnel, I saw some roman columns with the infinite symbol. The train started to slow down until it stopped completely. My whole body arched and fell back on the hospital bed. I opened my eyes and said to the nurse…”I died”…she took my hand and said “yes, but you are now here”…[/SIZE]
There are many Christians who get delivered from the kingdom of darkness and demonic spirits who lie to the world are gone so believers can have a sound body and mind , still demonic spirits can come back and people need to stay to Jesus and get deliver again and again as long as they are alive in the earth , as these demons hate God and do not want people to believe in God and His plan for people , as demons lie and bring on sin were faith in God can be challenged ............... So the author of being delivered from demons also say that by His blood of the cross people who take a side with Jesus , He will raise them up on their last day .........., So who do you believe , the lying spirit who hate God , or the God who can deliver people spiritually from the spirit of this world , and do it with ease
So I'm reading and watching on YouTube all these NDE's and the more I watch the more they sound like total fabricated crap made up either deliberately to deceive or just because the people recounting them had hallucinations and misinterpreted them as real.
What I do know is they're all anecdotal. By that I mean ask yourself: did you ever have one? Do you know anybody who says they had one? I'm 99% sure your answer is no to both. On top of that only 9% of people who clinically die have these things and if we can dismiss most of them as being badly flawed then the percentage of experiences that sound like there might be something real there is so staggeringly small we might as well say they never happened at all. That leaves us with no evidence there is any afterlife.
That in turn leaves us with the inconvenient truth that NDE's are baloney. I am about as close to an agnostic becoming atheist as an agnostic can get.
Pay close attention to the bolded and then read the scientific study, yes I said scientific study.
35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come? 36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die: 37 and that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain: 38 but God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds. 40 There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. 41 There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: 43 it is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: 44 it is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. 45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. 46 Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. 47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven. 48 As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. 49And as we have borne the image of the earthy,we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
That's the thing: these experiences are diverse that, yes I have heard of people saying they found themselves in a beautiful meadow with people in real clothing walking by and greeting them and then a train goes by and people's faces can be seen against the windows and the person having the NDE gets on the train.
Crazy stuff.
That still sounds a journey into the afterlife type experience. The diversity doesn't bother me. Every human life is diverse with a unique path. It's quite possible that we are eased into the afterlife with an experience tailored to our physical life experiences. I would love to know what Steve Jobs saw that made him say "oh wow" over and over during his last moments of life.
That still sounds a journey into the afterlife type experience. The diversity doesn't bother me. Every human life is diverse with a unique path. It's quite possible that we are eased into the afterlife with an experience tailored to our physical life experiences. I would love to know what Steve Jobs saw that made him say "oh wow" over and over during his last moments of life.
Steve Jobs was Buddhist IIRC. According to your conservative Christianity, Steve Jobs is in hell.
That still sounds a journey into the afterlife type experience. The diversity doesn't bother me. Every human life is diverse with a unique path. It's quite possible that we are eased into the afterlife with an experience tailored to our physical life experiences. I would love to know what Steve Jobs saw that made him say "oh wow" over and over during his last moments of life.
Uh...
So you're saying Christianity might not be the only way? Rather, we all have unique paths?
So I'm reading and watching on YouTube all these NDE's and the more I watch the more they sound like total fabricated crap made up either deliberately to deceive or just because the people recounting them had hallucinations and misinterpreted them as real.
What I do know is they're all anecdotal. By that I mean ask yourself: did you ever have one? Do you know anybody who says they had one? I'm 99% sure your answer is no to both. On top of that only 9% of people who clinically die have these things and if we can dismiss most of them as being badly flawed then the percentage of experiences that sound like there might be something real there is so staggeringly small we might as well say they never happened at all. That leaves us with no evidence there is any afterlife.
That in turn leaves us with the inconvenient truth that NDE's are baloney. I am about as close to an agnostic becoming atheist as an agnostic can get.
a brain is dying. they all die the same way, or similar, and have they memories. The brain begins a shut down process with the memories of the person. Similar cultures may have similar memories.
I believe they did see a light. Its just not what they think it is. Its the B-train
it aint rocket science.
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