An Intellectual's Christian Narrative: A Non-Magical Alternative (quote, faith, pray)

[mstelm]

I apologize, I would do it no justice.

[Matadora]

On the subject of Dark Matter being "god" or "god" consciousness.

Mystic I am curious how you come to the conclusions you do about Dark Matter?

We are on the verge of discovering what Dark Matter is.

Brian Green sheds light on Dark Matter

Brian Green words of wisdom with respect to Dark Matter: This this a beautiful example of how observations drive rational thinking to explain the facts, and ultimately verify it through observation and experiment that can be replicated - that's what science is.

Since we know the effects of Dark Matter how do you equate these effects to being a "god"?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Matadora

On the subject of Dark Matter being "god" or "god" consciousness.
Mystic I am curious how you come to the conclusions you do about Dark Matter?
We are on the verge of discovering what Dark Matter is.
Brian Green sheds light on Dark Matter
Brian Green words of wisdom with respect to Dark Matter: This this a beautiful example of how observations drive rational thinking to explain the facts, and ultimately verify it through observation and experiment that can be replicated - that's what science is.
Since we know the effects of Dark Matter how do you equate these effects to being a "god"?

We do not see our Reality in the same way, Mat, because I see our Reality AS God, you keep trying to find something separate that is God. What you are asking me is the analogous equivalent of asking me how my Colon can possibly be me.

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

We do not see our Reality in the same way, Mat, because I see our Reality AS God, you keep trying to find something separate that is God. What you are asking me is the analogous equivalent of asking me how my Colon can possibly be me.

Hello Mystic,

Can you please answer my question?

Additionally I am not trying to find anything but the truth. Seeking this truth does not entail "trying to find something separate that is God". I seek facts, what's real, what's true without any strings attached.

I am curious how you come to the conclusions you do about Dark Matter being "god"? What attributes does this "god" you believe in share in common with Dark Matter?

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Hello Mystic,

Can you please answer my question?

Additionally, I am not trying to find anything but the truth. Seeking this truth does not entail "trying to find something separate that is God". I seek facts, what's real, what's true without any strings attached.

I am curious how you come to the conclusions you do about Dark Matter being "god"? What attributes does this "god" you believe in share in common with Dark Matter?

I can answer your question but it is unlikely to be satisfactory. I have no scientific basis for the claim but there is supportive evidence that is plausible. I see the existence of Dark Matter and Dark Energy as supportive of my view of the composition of consciousness which is not directly measurable. Neither dark matter or dark energy are measurable directly yet they comprise 96% of our Reality. That single unique characteristic supplies a plausible connection and flatteringly suggests that our consciousness is a pretty important player in our Reality.

From the spiritual fossil record, there is a suggestion that one of the fates of human consciousness (or our spiritual self) is a lake of fire. Dark matter is the principal source of the gravity for the formation and maintenance of galaxies (lakes of fire - Suns). I made an obvious spiritual connection that one of the fates of human consciousness is to join the dark matter forming galaxies. That leaves the other fate as joining the dark energy responsible for the growth and accelerated expansion of our Reality. The spiritual suggestions for what will determine which fate our consciousness will face is whether or not it is loving. It suggests that non-loving consciousness will join the lake of fire while the loving consciousness will expand the heavens. I told you it would not be very satisfying, but that is my current rationale.

[old_cold]

What's the " spiritual fossil record" Mystic?
Maybe I've missed it while I was gone for so long.
Does that fit "A rose by any other name..." ?

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I can answer your question but it is unlikely to be satisfactory.

I'm simply curious so don't worry if I question some things you say..it's not about your answer being satisfactory...it's about trying to understand your response.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I have no scientific basis for the claim but there is supportive evidence that is plausible.

Do you agree that we can take any unknowns about the Universe and make almost anything plausible?

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I see the existence of Dark Matter and Dark Energy as supportive of my view of the composition of consciousness which is not directly measurable. Neither dark matter or dark energy are measurable directly yet they comprise 96% of our Reality.

What "Reality" are you claiming that dark matter and dark energy comprise? Our "Reality" here on this earth is the "Reality" we exist in along side "normal" matter. Dark Matter and Dark Energy are not at play here on earth thus do not comprise our "Reality". All we see here on Earth is what is referred to as "normal" matter.

Dark Matter and Dark Energy may not be directly measurable TODAY and the only reason for this is due to our sensitivity of our measuring devices. We can't measure gravity directly but we know it exits...do you think gravity is part of our consciousness? Dark Matter and Dark Energy are no different in that respect.

In fact I think Dark Energy and Dark Matter are intertwined with Spacetime and gravity. The more we learn about Dark Matter and Dark Energy it's becoming more apparent that there's a possibility that Einstein's theory of gravity is not correct. This possibility would provide a way to decide if the solution to the dark energy problem is a new gravity theory or not.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

That single unique characteristic supplies a plausible connection and flatteringly suggests that our consciousness is a pretty important player in our Reality.

We can take any unknowns about the Universe and create anything that is plausible.

Where consciousness originates is now being measured.

A new Tel Aviv University study takes researchers a step closer to solving this mystery. The study, drawn from data collected by electrodes implanted in patients with epilepsy, identifies and measures the neural activity associated with a new conscious experience.

"Computers and robots interact with the world without being conscious. But something miraculous happens inside our brains to make us conscious and experience the world from a subjective perspective," said Dr. Gelbard-Sagiv. "

Despite 30 years of neuroscientific research in this area, we still do not know which areas of the brain take part in the process.

• The scientists discovered that the activity in frontal lobe neurons changed almost two seconds before the patient reported an alternation in perception, and that the neuronal activity in the medial temporal lobe changed one second before a report.
  
• "Two seconds is a long time in terms of neural activity," Dr. Gelbard-Sagiv said. "We believe that the activity of these neurons not only correlates with perception, but also may take part in the process that leads to the emergence of a conscious percept."
  
• "The study captures individual cells in the human brain just before one conscious experience is replaced by another," Prof. Fried said. "It is a unique privilege to gain such a rare glimpse into human consciousness. At the same time, we can provide clinical care aimed at alleviating severe epilepsy in our patients."

"Our new study brings us one step closer to understanding consciousness and conscious experience at the most concrete level: the electrical activity of individual neurons."

Source: Neuronal Activity Sheds Light on the Origin of Consciousness

This study is major progress and is going to lead to a major shift in our understanding or the how consciousness originates in our brains.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

From the spiritual fossil record, there is a suggestion that one of the fates of human consciousness (or our spiritual self) is a lake of fire.

Sorry I need you to break this down for me as it's full of terms and concepts that are foreign to me.

• What is the "spiritual fossil record"?
• Who makes this suggestion that one of the fates of human consciousness (or our spiritual self) is a lake of fire.?
• What is the lake of fire?

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

Dark matter is the principal source of the gravity for the formation and maintenance of galaxies (lakes of fire - Suns).

My understanding is that Dark matter has noting to do with being the source of the gravity for the formation and maintenance of galaxies.

We think that galaxies begin as small clouds of stars and dust swirling through space. There are different theories on how these disk-like distributions of stars develop from a cloud of matter: however, at present, none of them exactly predicts the results of observation.

As Brian Greene explained in the video I posted we know that gravity holds these formations together...we have evidence of this. However the galaxey is spiraling at such a high rate of speed that the outer stars should be flung out into space. So it's only the outer stars on the edge of a spiraling galaxy that we see Dark Matter exerting it's effects. This does not imply that Dark Matter is performing maintenance on the galaxy. Galaxies do not “maintain their shape”, via Dark Matter as they are constantly in flux.

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I made an obvious spiritual connection that one of the fates of human consciousness is to join the dark matter forming galaxies.

That leaves the other fate as joining the dark energy responsible for the growth and accelerated expansion of our Reality. The spiritual suggestions for what will determine which fate our consciousness will face is whether or not it is loving. It suggests that non-loving consciousness will join the lake of fire while the loving consciousness will expand the heavens. I told you it would not be very satisfying, but that is my current rationale.

Like I mentioned it is possible to make any unknown about the Universe a plausible feature of your beliefs.

I wonder why humans have the need to make everything so mysterious, and deterministic?

We alone cultivate our consciousness to be what it is during our time on earth. This cultivation should not be for an afterlife deterministic "fate". Cultivating a higher consciousness should be done for the purpose of your time here and now so that you can experience the best possible existence during our short time here. Herein lies the issue...what I deem to be a wonderful lifetime existence is my reality and mine alone...there are going to be folks who have their own personal beliefs of what they think constitutes a wonderful lifetime of existence for themselves. The human species has been the most problematic species to ever walk this earth due to the fact that we all have differing opinions on what deems one's life to be purposeful and meaningful. Look at the wars and conflict that has resulted from our differences in what we deem to be meaningful and purposeful. It's utterly ridiculous!

Everyone of us were born into different levels of difficulty on this earth. That's the unfair part of life. Look at children born to evil parents and suffer relentlessly and many end up being killed at the evil hands of those parents. Look at children born into extreme poverty in many 3rd world slums. Look at the bright minds such as people like Shirina who out of nowhere developed a painful debilitating illness. I could list more examples of life being unfair to so many people that makes it impossible to escape the suffering. Where is the fairness in all of this? How could some loving all powerful all knowledgeable "god" sit by idly and allow this? It's not anyone's fault who is born into an impossible to overcome situation. Their life will no doubt not mirror the life of a person who has control of their destiny and has a better environment to shape and cultivate a higher consciousness.

We are responsible for cultivating a higher consciousness during our time here on earth. Most are not born with an instruction book on how to do this. This is why you see so many religions and spiritual practices that have existed since the beginning of recorded history. This is why you see such divide among humans who cling vehemently to their religious doctrines because they think it should be everyone else's truth. Religion keeps the world divided. If people can't see that than they are not very observant.

How can a small child who has experienced nothing but torture and soul slashing abuse until it finally meets it's death at the hands of the evil abuser know anything about a loving consciousness? Most small children don't even understand the concept of a loving consciousness.

Deterministic religious/spiritual beliefs are out of touch with the reality of what is occurring here on earth with people who are born into a hell captivity that is inescapable and of no fault of their own.

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by MysticPhD

I can answer your question but it is unlikely to be satisfactory. I have no scientific basis for the claim but there is supportive evidence that is plausible. I see the existence of Dark Matter and Dark Energy as supportive of my view of the composition of consciousness which is not directly measurable. Neither dark matter or dark energy are measurable directly yet they comprise 96% of our Reality. That single unique characteristic supplies a plausible connection and flatteringly suggests that our consciousness is a pretty important player in our Reality.

From the spiritual fossil record, there is a suggestion that one of the fates of human consciousness (or our spiritual self) is a lake of fire. Dark matter is the principal source of the gravity for the formation and maintenance of galaxies (lakes of fire - Suns). I made an obvious spiritual connection that one of the fates of human consciousness is to join the dark matter forming galaxies. That leaves the other fate as joining the dark energy responsible for the growth and accelerated expansion of our Reality. The spiritual suggestions for what will determine which fate our consciousness will face is whether or not it is loving. It suggests that non-loving consciousness will join the lake of fire while the loving consciousness will expand the heavens. I told you it would not be very satisfying, but that is my current rationale.

Originally Posted by Matadora

I'm simply curious so don't worry if I question some things you say..it's not about your answer being satisfactory...it's about trying to understand your response.
Do you agree that we can take any unknowns about the Universe and make almost anything plausible?

No, I do not. There must be some basis for extrapolating into the unknown. The fact that we can NOT directly measure whatever dark matter or dark energy are is a common attribute that our consciousness uniquely shares with them.

What "Reality" are you claiming that dark matter and dark energy comprise? Our "Reality" here on this earth is the "Reality" we exist in alongside "normal" matter. Dark Matter and Dark Energy are not at play here on earth thus do not comprise our "Reality". All we see here on Earth is what is referred to as "normal" matter.

There is only one Reality and it encompasses everything NOT just our tiny blue dot. Your statement that dark matter and dark energy play no part when they are 96% of the environment within which we exist is simply silly.

Dark Matter and Dark Energy may not be directly measurable TODAY and the only reason for this is due to our sensitivity of our measuring devices. We can't measure gravity directly but we know it exists...do you think gravity is part of our consciousness? Dark Matter and Dark Energy are no different in that respect.

It has nothing to do with the sensitivity of our measurements but with the very limitations of their composition. The molecular level of the existence of our sensory system limits what it can sense of things that do not exist at that level. We have to create measurement tools and events that produce outcomes identifiable by our senses. Those surrogate measurement event outcomes are NOT actually what we seek to measure. Until we can directly measure and actually hear your thoughts as they occur, we will not be able to measure either dark matter or dark energy, IMO.

In fact I think Dark Energy and Dark Matter are intertwined with Spacetime and gravity. The more we learn about Dark Matter and Dark Energy it's becoming more apparent that there's a possibility that Einstein's theory of gravity is not correct. This possibility would provide a way to decide if the solution to the dark energy problem is a new gravity theory or not.

That would be a "Duh." In my opinion, the physics model and approach will not get it done. I believe it will require a biological one and we are learning more and more about how biological systems unfold and can be modeled. That may provide the paradigm shift we need in physics.

We can take any unknowns about the Universe and create anything that is plausible.

No we can NOT, and repeating it will not make it any truer, Mat. There must be a plausible link.

Where consciousness originates is now being measured.
A new Tel Aviv University study takes researchers a step closer to solving this mystery. The study, drawn from data collected by electrodes implanted in patients with epilepsy, identifies and measures the neural activity associated with a new conscious experience.

This study is major progress and is going to lead to a major shift in our understanding or the how consciousness originates in our brains.

There is no question about where consciousness originates, Mat. The issue is where does it reside once generated. The fact that it exists at the level of neural synaptic firings eliminates any possibility that the resultant resonant neural composite form that does the actual thinking and feeling exists anywhere within physical matter. It is at a whole different level of energy analogous to the EM level but unmeasurable.

Sorry I need you to break this down for me as it's full of terms and concepts that are foreign to me.

• What is the "spiritual fossil record"?
• Who makes this suggestion that one of the fates of human consciousness (or our spiritual self) is a lake of fire.?
• What is the lake of fire?

I have dealt with these questions repeatedly and in detail elsewhere. In essence, The entirety of human speculation recorded in the many scriptures, myths, legend,s folk tales, religious doctrines, spiritual and mystical tomes, etc. constitute the "spiritual fossil record." They reveal the evolution of our cognitive understanding of our origins and purpose, etc. just as the physical fossils reveal the evolution of our physical form.

My understanding is that Dark matter has nothing to do with being the source of the gravity for the formation and maintenance of galaxies.
We think that galaxies begin as small clouds of stars and dust swirling through space. There are different theories on how these disk-like distributions of stars develop from a cloud of matter: however, at present, none of them exactly predicts the results of observation.
As Brian Greene explained in the video I posted we know that gravity holds these formations together...we have evidence of this. However, the galaxy is spiraling at such a high rate of speed that the outer stars should be flung out into space. So it's only the outer stars on the edge of a spiraling galaxy that we see Dark Matter exerting its effects. This does not imply that Dark Matter is performing maintenance on the galaxy. Galaxies do not “maintain their shape”, via Dark Matter as they are constantly in flux.
Like I mentioned it is possible to make any unknown about the Universe a plausible feature of your beliefs.

Then your understanding is inaccurate. Your own source says that without dark matter, the galaxies would NOT be able to form and stay as they are because there is not enough visible matter to provide the necessary gravity to keep them from spiraling apart. How you do not see that as applying to the entire galaxy and not just the outer stars is beyond me.

I wonder why humans have the need to make everything so mysterious, and deterministic?

We alone cultivate our consciousness to be what it is during our time on earth. This cultivation should not be for an afterlife deterministic "fate". Cultivating a higher consciousness should be done for the purpose of your time here and now so that you can experience the best possible existence during our short time here. Herein lies the issue...what I deem to be a wonderful lifetime existence is my reality and mine alone...there are going to be folks who have their own personal beliefs of what they think constitutes a wonderful lifetime of existence for themselves. The human species has been the most problematic species to ever walk this earth due to the fact that we all have differing opinions on what deems one's life to be purposeful and meaningful. Look at the wars and conflict that has resulted from our differences in what we deem to be meaningful and purposeful. It's utterly ridiculous!

Every one of us was born into different levels of difficulty on this earth. That's the unfair part of life. Look at children born to evil parents and suffer relentlessly and many end up being killed at the evil hands of those parents. Look at children born into extreme poverty in many 3rd world slums. Look at the bright minds such as people like Shirina who out of nowhere developed a painful debilitating illness. I could list more examples of life being unfair to so many people that makes it impossible to escape the suffering. Where is the fairness in all of this? How could some loving all powerful all knowledgeable "god" sit by idly and allow this? It's not anyone's fault who is born into an impossible to overcome situation. Their life will no doubt not mirror the life of a person who has control of their destiny and has a better environment to shape and cultivate a higher consciousness.

We are responsible for cultivating a higher consciousness during our time here on earth. Most are not born with an instruction book on how to do this. This is why you see so many religions and spiritual practices that have existed since the beginning of recorded history. This is why you see such divide among humans who cling vehemently to their religious doctrines because they think it should be everyone else's truth. Religion keeps the world divided. If people can't see that then they are not very observant.

How can a small child who has experienced nothing but torture and soul slashing abuse until it finally meets it's death at the hands of the evil abuser know anything about a loving consciousness? Most small children don't even understand the concept of a loving consciousness.

Deterministic religious/spiritual beliefs are out of touch with the reality of what is occurring here on earth with people who are born into a hell captivity that is inescapable and of no fault of their own.

I have little to say about your description of our existence and its vicissitudes and I agree that religions frequently are the source of negative and deleterious effects that compound the situations. But I am not talking about any of that. I am describing what I believe the composition of our Reality IS and how our consciousness fits within it. I believe our problems arise from the fact that we are within a living entity (God) and trying to understand it from the inside using the perspective of one of its components.

[mstelm]

(Listens)

[Freak80]

Mystic,

Dark Matter will be evidence for God until scientists finally understand it. Then it won’t be evidence for God anymore and you’ll have to move onto the next mystery.

Be prepared to move those goalposts.