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Old 10-19-2015, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Sinking in the Great Salt Lake
13,138 posts, read 22,804,086 times
Reputation: 14116

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You know the kind of people, someone who calls themselves Catholic even though they haven't darkened the door of a Cathedral since their 1st communion and don't really believe the Pope actually talks with god or Jewish even though they don't feel bad about eating a bacon double cheeseburger and putting up a Christmas tree every December. That kind of thing is so common as to be almost unnoticeable in most other religions but Mormons seem to have a exceptionally strong "you're either with us or against us" mentality... which is why I ask.

It would seem to me that a religion is often just as much a culture as it is a "club" (for lack of a better term) with specific rules for entry.

It's a big difference to recognize... you become a member of a culture just by being born and living in it, but religion demands specific demonstrations of devotion to accepted "into the fold". Many religions including the LDS Church straddle the line between institution and culture, creating a conundrum that seems to cause many problems with one's sense of identity and their relationship with family/community.

So can someone rightly call themself "Mormon" if they drink, smoke, don't go to church or believe Joe Smith really saw god but were born and raised within LDS culture and therefore naturally see the world through LDS tinted glasses?

Are Mormons a "special case" in this situation? Are more "relaxed" members of other religions with strong cultural ties wrong to live as they do while still professing membership in their religion? Does Mormonism need to back off and be more willing to accept those "relaxed members" if the institution hopes to survive in the future?
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Old 10-19-2015, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,090 posts, read 29,934,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chango View Post
You know the kind of people, someone who calls themselves Catholic even though they haven't darkened the door of a Cathedral since their 1st communion and don't really believe the Pope actually talks with god or Jewish even though they don't feel bad about eating a bacon double cheeseburger and putting up a Christmas tree every December. That kind of thing is so common as to be almost unnoticeable in most other religions but Mormons seem to have a exceptionally strong "you're either with us or against us" mentality... which is why I ask.

It would seem to me that a religion is often just as much a culture as it is a "club" (for lack of a better term) with specific rules for entry.

It's a big difference to recognize... you become a member of a culture just by being born and living in it, but religion demands specific demonstrations of devotion to accepted "into the fold". Many religions including the LDS Church straddle the line between institution and culture, creating a conundrum that seems to cause many problems with one's sense of identity and their relationship with family/community.

So can someone rightly call themself "Mormon" if they drink, smoke, don't go to church or believe Joe Smith really saw god but were born and raised within LDS culture and therefore naturally see the world through LDS tinted glasses?

Are Mormons a "special case" in this situation? Are more "relaxed" members of other religions with strong cultural ties wrong to live as they do while still professing membership in their religion? Does Mormonism need to back off and be more willing to accept those "relaxed members" if the institution hopes to survive in the future?
I am quite confident that Mormonism will survive regardless of whether the more devout members are willing to accept the more liberal Mormons in their midst or not, but it would be a lot better church, in my opinion, if there wasn't quite so much pressure to conform to the cookie-cutter image. I also suspect that the cookie-cutter image is a great deal more prevalent in Utah than elsewhere.

For quite some time I have considered myself to be "not your average Mormon." That definitely doesn't mean that I'm not on my way out of the faith. I consider myself to be a believing, practicing member of the Church, but I am pretty atypical in quite a number of respects. It's funny, but of the people who exist on the fringes (in any respect) of Mormonism, I would guess that most of them have stopped believing in the Church's doctrines but love its culture so much that they still stay involved. For me, it's pretty much the opposite. When it comes to the core doctrines of Mormonism (i.e. our understanding of who God is, who Jesus Christ is, what our relationship with them is, and what God's "Plan of Salvation" is ultimately all about), I am pretty much orthodox. When it comes to Mormon culture, though, I'm a definite outsider. I don't fit in. I don't feel free to express many of my opinions to the more "normal" members of my faith. It's hard.

I think a lot of Mormons think that "bad Mormons" aren't "real Mormons," and by "bad Mormons" they mean Mormons who watch R-rated movies, who vote Democrat, and who march in pride parades in support of LGBT rights. They'd see a Mormon (like me) who has a drink of wine at Thanksgiving and Christmas (like I do) as a "bad Mormon." Of course, most of them don't have a clue that I'm a bad Mormon, because I do my best to fit in and not rock the boat too much by being all that verbal. It's sad, but I'm afraid it is what it is. On the other hand, despite the difficulties involved in being the kind of Mormon I am, I do not regret having been born and raised in the Church. I really do believe that I am a better person for having been a part of this unique culture all of my life than I would be otherwise and I'm grateful that my faith is such an integral part of my life.
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Old 10-19-2015, 03:45 PM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,612,415 times
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Do you subject others to a quiz determining if they are "good" Mormons? If so, it must be the hit of every mocktail party.

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Old 10-19-2015, 03:57 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
28,090 posts, read 29,934,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonkonkomaNative View Post
Do you subject others to a quiz determining if they are "good" Mormons? If so, it must be the hit of every mocktail party.

Who's the "you" you're addressing? Me?
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Old 10-19-2015, 04:15 PM
 
6,961 posts, read 4,612,415 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
Who's the "you" you're addressing? Me?
The OP. We see the same kind of inference about people being the right kind of Christian here. I always find it astonishing.

I am sorry I was not clear. I should have quoted the OP.
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Old 10-19-2015, 04:29 PM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,206,191 times
Reputation: 7812
Are "bad" christians still christians?

How bad is bad? Many things have been done in the name of god and the name of moroni...does that still make the acts bad?
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Old 10-19-2015, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,168,052 times
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Are bad people still people?
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Old 10-19-2015, 04:41 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,157,543 times
Reputation: 32579
Bad Mormons would be an excellent name for a rock band.

Much better than Bad Christians. Not as edgy as Bad Jews.
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Old 10-19-2015, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,168,052 times
Reputation: 14069
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewDropInn View Post
Bad Mormons would be an excellent name for a rock band.

Much better than Bad Christians. Not as edgy as Bad Jews.
LOL!

Owe ya' one.
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Old 10-19-2015, 06:13 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
17,772 posts, read 13,665,953 times
Reputation: 17806
I thought those kinds of Mormons were just called "Jack" Mormons. Raised in the faith but no longer following the tenets of the faith.

I always thought it would be kind of cool if they called the female version of a "Jack" Mormon a "Jill" Mormon.
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