Earth's sixth mass extinction ‘already here' as scientists warn of dismal future

[Arach Angle]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Yes I did. Anything that sucks the life out of it's host at the hosts expense is a parasite and when it spreads death like a cancer then it becomes a parasitic cancer.
You and I holf a different view of what living in harmony with the earth means. Living in harmony with the earth involves creating global sustainable developments. Ancient humans did just that. Modern humans have done just the opposite.
Well then I guess you are going to have to do some work on your wrong thinking about what I mean by "living in harmony with nature". Humans are the parasitic cancer of this Earth regardless if you like it or not.

just a note, you start with personal ad homians. Like you are here. Its just that you can't bully us and when we respond that makes you upset.

parasitic cancer ... this is all we need to rest our case. but I will address the error anyway.

You need to do some work with placing your personal feeling about what you feel is going on and what is actually going on. Your religious views are creeping into a discussion. I guess its ok as long as you are clear about it.

no, i don't think we have to rethink how you are misusing the term harmony. early humans did not have "harmony". They had limiting factors. The ecosystem had had homeostasis. that's not really the same thing as harmony implies.

Originally Posted by Matadora

I agree, the word "better" is a very abstract concept and I would say it
has no real definite consistent meaning. You and I don't use terms in the same manner. I don't find chocolate ice cream to be superior to strawberry ice cream simply because I think chocolate ice cream is better.
I am not concerned in the least with what I sound like to you. Your perceptions are all about you and have nothing to do with who I am.

again, we are just clarifying what you are misrepresenting. And you take it personally. "better" has no meaning here. What adaptation "worked" and what one "didn't work". Thats it. "living in harmony" is woo woo choo choo stuff.

yes, we agree, again, human's are causing this extinction. (you claim otherwise) We just disagree that "human are evil" as the term "cancer parasite" implies. I mean its true, it just has a religious "we are religious evil" feel to it. We also are saying that humans are not that much different than other animals. That's all. Not they are not causing the change.

Humans do adapt, via tool making, past their limiting factors pretty quickly. yes, some bacteria and viruses do it faster. That does not negate the truth to the statement that human do it pretty fast for large animals. But your emotional state has to have you "more right" for some reason.

Originally Posted by Matadora

That's a mighty laughable comment. LOL! You mean as obvious as you declaring that ancient people did not live in harmony with Earth and that WE invented tools implying they did not but WE did.

again, with the ad homein. while also being wrong. We said you are using therm "hormony" incorrectly. The people accepted their fate. The limiting factors stopped them from overpopulation.

You need to learn about ecology and how it relates to populations. Yes, your religious views have merit, like all religious views do. We questions the definitions are using. "harmony" is not the same thing as "homeostatis'.

Originally Posted by Matadora

Do learn to keep up with your own posts before going off on me with snarky ad hominem attacks.
I never implied you did. You went off on that tangent because you completely missed my point.

again with the personal attack. thanks, real impressive there.

Originally Posted by Matadora

I think you really meant, for all you don't know. You don't speak for all humans and their state of happiness nor do you speak for other animal species and their state of misery. You appear to have no idea what you are talking about.

again a personal attack. all because we said you are misrepresenting ecology using your personal religious views.

Originally Posted by Matadora

it's easy to see that the enormous trade off of suffering that other animals and the Earth has endured from human activity alone...is a lousy trade-off that can't be justified.
See the title of this Thread. The 6th Mass Extinction has everything to do with humans.
See above...you are the one who implied that WE are the ones who made tools not them.
A little more than one hundred years ago, Native American Indians were taken away from their families in Indian Territory to a government run boarding school where the policy was to wipe away every trace of the indigenous worldview from those people and replace it with the western settler mindset.
How can you not acknowledge the damage humans alone have caused to Earth? Yes we have ruined it not only for ourselves but for many species which are now going extinct, we have polluted even the most pristine lands and oceans with our human actives. I guess you are also blind the current climate change, global pollution and the plethora of extinctions all caused by human activity.
No doubt our species will face the brink of extinction. Yes the human species will face it as did all the other 99.9% of species that walked on this Earth.
Self-preservation is the protection of oneself from harm or death, and is especially regarded as a basic instinct in human beings and animals.
We have a unique skill for rapid change? No we don't...bacteria and viruses do but not big ole humans. Evolution is not a rapid change in humans...it's a long slow process.

When you hear that 99.9999% of all species that have ever existed on Earth has gone extinct. This means two things. Firstly, most 'types' of organism (animal, plant, fungi, whatever) only last a few million years at most before their way of life becomes outmoded as environments shift or competitors appear. However, 'extinction' can also mean evolution into a totally new form. As the old form (species) disappears this is still an extinction as a particular way of life is lost, although there is still a carry over of genetic material.
So much wrong thinking here that I don't want to waste my time on it.

I believe that transformation of our relationship to the Earth is among the greatest challenges and responsibilities of our time.

wow, a lot of ranting.

We said its humans. what don't you get? we don't agree with your whoo whoo choo choo "harmony". In this case that is. woo woo has its place.

We also said you are wrong with what you said we said. You were wrong about the gorilla, wrong about the jaguar, and now you are wrong with the Indians. They didn't live in "harmony". They lived with acceptance in an ecosystem that had "balance", we call equilibrium or a dynamic equilibrium ... 'homeostasis. They understood limiting factors as well as we do today. they didn't have the tools to change their situation.

The Indians would have taken all of our females, killed the fighting aged men, and any others that they couldn't support. They would have acted just like we did. Why? because we, like them, are human. so your whole "they had blissful harmony" is a result of too much lucid dreaming and meditation to feel the woo. That's why i have a problem with too much religion.

I agree, we need to treat the biosphere as an organism. It seems to be one. try selling that to our resident atheism priests.

[Arach Angle]

Originally Posted by Matadora

Quite often in the general community there is a notion that overpopulation is a problem largely caused by the third world and to an extent non-white nations. I would like to put forward a slightly different definition of overpopulation.

People tend to oversimplify, and state that the problem is 'too many people', and because most of the births come from the third world, then the third world is the primary cause of the problem. Though this is true, it completely avoids the issue which isn't the number of people that exist, but the number of people the planet can support.

The lifestyle of the people the planet is supporting cannot be overlooked. To say that a family of 10 Africans living in a shanty town is equivalent of 3 average white families living in the US, and just as much a contributing factor is just absurd. Considering that the use of resources per capita in the US and other first world countries is magnitudes greater and that even calorie intake is disproportionately higher, we see that the carrying capacity depends greatly, almost exclusively on the lifestyle and rate of consumption of the people inhabiting the planet. This is the primary problem.

The world may be able to support 6 billion people living in poverty, but NOT 6 billion living in the type of society we are used to. The real problem, as I see it, is that there is not enough for everyone in the world to develop to first world levels. I would argue that even in the first world, there are still more people than there should be for long term survival. I would argue than most first world nations, are already overpopulated.

I agree. we should look at the carrying capacity of the planet. and carrying capacity of an ecosystem. And what factors contribute to the carrying capacity.

with present date technology the carrying capacity is around 20 billion (i don't feel like going to look it up).
Where is that technology coming from?

My question to you is who is responsible to pay when the third world nations reach their carrying capacity and an event comes along to show us they were well over it?

who is responsible for the "war" that changes the balance so that the carrying capacity is no longer what it was? They herd people ... that is sick to me.

I would questions this "who we really mean". I only do carrying capacity and the factors that contribute to it. If it is racism we need to address racism.

You brought up africa. In africa, who is determining what lifestyle they are living? And when is it the persons living in a region responsibility to understand their role? Understand their ecosystem. which I think they actually do. Its just bad people in their region use it too, in a bad way.

would you be human enough to address exceeding the carrying capacity of a region like china did? How about moving everybody to meat? That would help?

how about letting an ecosystem reach its natural "balance", its "natural Harmony". Like, urban, suburban, desert, and tropical? "nature's harmony" would settle the issue in a most beautiful natural way. Just kidding there, when ma nature thins the heard she don't play harmony games.

[Arach Angle]

hey trans..

I notice you are staying away from maddy's woo woo choo choo? but you are ready to pounce on others? sortagod and all that other nonsense you hit me with.

why is that?

[Hannibal Flavius]

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

hey trans..

I notice you are staying away from maddy's woo woo choo choo? but you are ready to pounce on others? sortagod and all that other nonsense you hit me with.

why is that?

Ya gotta pick somebody to love.




woo woo, choo choo, I like that.

[Hannibal Flavius]

Scientists don't know what they are talking about. People look at the Earth as if it knows nothing, or as if it does not know what man does, or as if it cannot protect itself.


The Earth is a living breathing entity that can do whatever it wants, it has all the power in the world to kill us all.


When you inherit the Earth, you don't inherit gold or silver, you inherit the earth and the earth will love you in such a way as to make things go well for you, if the earth loves you, there is no need to ask anything of it because once it loves you, it will protect you before you ask.


The Earth is a witness, and this is why men were told to sweep the dust from their feet as a witness, because it really is a living, breathing witness.


When Elisha inherited the Earth, he cursed those false prophets of Ephraim, and it was the earth that came out against those false prophets, it was the earth that sent those two she bears out to kill the people mocking Elisha because the Earth loved Elisha.


To inherit the Earth is a strange thing, it isn't just a rock that knows nothing, it knows all things.

[Matadora]

Two can play your game.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

Lmao, yeah.
you have to watch that woo woo lucid dreaming and feeling the force woo of yours.

Caustic antagonistic ad hominem.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

I pointed out your "harmony" is more correctly stated, they are in equilibrium. Actually the best word is homeostasis.

This is a gross misunderstanding from a laymen's perspective. Homeostasis is not the best word used to describe living in harmony with earths land. Educating yourself about the proper use of homeostasis is the best thing you can do for yourself.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

There are limiting factors that control populations. we adapted past our limiting factors. factoid.

No WE as humans don't. You really don't get the easy biology concepts.

When organisms face limiting factors, they show logistic growth (S-shaped curve, curve B: Figure below). Competition for resources like food and space cause the growth rate to stop increasing, so the population levels off. This flat upper line on a growth curve is the carrying capacity. The carrying capacity (K) is the maximum population size that can be supported in a particular area without destroying the habitat. Limiting factors determine the carrying capacity of a population. Recall that when there are no limiting factors, the population grows exponentially. In exponential growth (J-shaped curve, curve A: Figure below), as the population size increases, the growth rate also increases.

http://www.city-data.com/forum/attac...1&d=1500475773

Now compare the current human population curve to curve A in the above graph. Do you see a correlation? Pretty simple concept that you got completely wrong.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

I pointed out that your precious jaguar, that you implied is special, would pollute (poop) and eat itself into extinction if the system around it didn't stop it.

Vile nasty communication style reeking of ignorance...Not to mention you have no idea what you are talking about. My precious jaguar? WTH are you even talking about?

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

You also fell in love with a gorilla. Again, I am not the one that would judge that, I understand loving animals. but a gorilla is less complex than a 3 yeard old child. Just a fact again little girl.

Calling a grown person a little girl is a great example of your caustic antagonistic ad hominem personal attacks. On top of this you are demonstrating your utter ignorance on gorilla intelligence.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

But you avoided your mistakes again ... you rather attack the messenger, I get.

More caustic antagonistic ad hominem. For the record I did not avoid anything with you. You are unable to hold intelligent civil discussions and until you figure this out and fix it you will continue to be ignored...there are many other posters who do the same with you.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

Thats a fact little girl. Get over it. Maybe for the better.

Awesome demonstration of your continued caustic antagonistic ad hominem personal attacks.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

All animals exploit their environment until something stops them, they eat, or they pollute themselves into extinction.

You have no clue what you are talking about. This is the biggest bunch of nonsense I have ever read.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

again, that's a simple observation that you will have to get straight.

Go back to the Carrying Capacity mini lesson I gave above and next time you post on this topic hopefully you will get it straight.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

I pointed out that you were wrong when you claimed I said humans are the only complex life on this planet,

This is a flat out lie. I never once made any such ridiculous claim.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

I actually said the biosphere is the most complicated set of interactions we know. But you ignored that and went with the insults and running away. typical.

More lies and false accusations topped off with caustic antagonistic ad hominem personal attacks.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

Your 'harmony" is a self projection of self hatred to me.

More nonsensical misrepresentations.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

I mean, really? humans are evil and a parasite?

Funny I never once mentioned the word evil in this entire thread. Now your just making it up as you go along.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

Gorilla's and jaguars "live in harmony".

LOL these two species don't even live on the same continent. Gorillas live in harmony with nature...the only thing driving them into extinction are humans.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

I would expect that out of some dopey theist fundy. oh wait, milli-mentalist-think is abound too.

Another demonstration of nasty and vile thinking on top of your continued display of caustic antagonistic ad hominem personal attacks.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

All you do is say how wrong

You are wrong 99.9% of the time. Either get educated or "get over it" as you like to say.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

I am and all it shows is that you are not trained in the sciences. I doubt you even have a degree in biology at this point.

Bold face lie and misrepresentation on top of your continued display of caustic antagonistic ad hominem personal attacks.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

I mean its ok to rant and rave about things, but at some point you have to address the facts.

The only one ranting here is you. The only one who needs to wake up and face the facts is also you.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

Its even ok to hate me.

Hating a nobody is a waste of time and mental energy. In fact hating anyone is a waste of time and energy...no thanks I don't have time for that.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

all you did was insult.

LOL boy you must be missing the self-reflection gene. LOL!!

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

that's how you perceive things, bring them down to your level.

More of your nonsensical false accusations and another display of caustic antagonistic ad hominem personal attacks.

Originally Posted by Arach Angle

all in all, just like the last time I pointed out where you are wrong, you flipped out instead of making some minor adjustments to make you statements align with what most scientist do think. See: religion and psychology.

LOL at your last jab of nasty vile thinking topped off with another display of caustic antagonistic ad hominem personal attacks. Perhaps you need to hang out in the Psychology section instead of the religious section.

[Matadora]

Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER

While this is an interesting discussion and some thoughtfull posts all round (mostly ) I wonder whether this is really one for 'spirituality'. I see little relevance to religion except in relation to Deniers that say it is either not happening or that it's all part of god's plan.

This more of a science or political or social problem. The relevance even to spirituality is doubtful.

I see it as a spiritual discussion. To me living in harmony with Earth is very spiritual. Humans have broken this bond with Earth and it's a direct reflection of what we see in the world today. We see a world full of broken humans who are exacerbating the issues that plague this Earth.

It’s imperative that we restore the land from the damage we have inflicted. I have come to understand that it is not only the land that has been broken. It is our relationship to land. A key to sustainability is not only restoring the land, but restoring the relationship. If we are to survive and if other animal and plant species relatives are to survive as well, we need a change in worldview.

The dominance of the anthropocentric worldview may limit the achievement of sustainable development goals. In a bio-centric worldview, science, economics, ethics, and values are more closely aligned with one another, bringing the scientifically sound into alignment with the ecologically and morally responsible.

If the human race could achieve a spiritual connection with our planet, then I think we would be able to over come this. Sadly I see no progress towards this goal.

[mensaguy]

Originally Posted by mensaguy

Please!

Stop with the personal remarks! If you don't want to discuss the topic in a civil manner, feel free to go post somewhere else.

It seems that some of you didn't think this warning applied to you. It did. Thread close. Infractions to follow.