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I offered to quit smoking (and since have) but it was a no go. There are instructed to treat us as dead...not even an email. It's not like I tried to entice her into a cup of egg nog.
Totally off topic, but WAY TO GO! Not an easy thing to do, and the fact that you did it for your mom makes it especially lovely. I hope she comes around, L8.
I am not sure why this is being criticized, well, except that it involves the Jehovah Witness religion that is often under fire.
Does anyone know why the older sister was "disfellowshipped"? Is it possible that what the older sister had done was something that any of us might not want our 10 year old daughter getting involved with if she continued to be in the life of the older sister? Too many unanswered questions to just condemn the actions in the video.
Also, there are religions that practice "shunning". It is something that I approve of. It has its place.
if her sister was that bad you still don't parade a 10 year old out there like that. On so many levels its bad mo-jo.
Shunning in of itself isn't morally wrong. Like in a village or group that wants a bad person to go away but they don't feel its worthy of assault. ... so shun. Sometimes its even valid. belief statement based sites put people on ignore to shun. they will also berate, mock, dehumanize people. All to make their personal belief statement seem more real than a knowledge statement. just go and see.
I would be laughing but for the fact that we regulars are left defending ourselves from them because some of us are so afraid to act. Or paying for the families for generations. Will canada take them?
To parade a 10 year old up there like that while they, to steal a phrase, clap like seals, is a disgrace.
I put it up because I was raised in this group and I'm trying to expose the Watchtower for what it is. I find it very therapeutic to speak out against a corporation that silenced me as a child. You are right as far as the Watchtower not being the only group that shuns. It's a control tactic of cults and Scientology uses it too. If you notice the girl said that she would have to cut off contact again with her sister (after she was baptized) and it would be too hard. Only as a baptized witnesses can she be disfellowshipped for having contact with her sister, before her baptism that couldn't land her in actionable trouble. After her baptism she can have no contact with her sister or risk getting disfellowshipped and shunned herself. She also said that contact with her sister would harm her relationship with Jehovah. She didn't say her sister was into bad things and she was worried about that.
If a person decides they want to leave the group they can write a letter of disassociate themselves. They can commit no other sin except not wanting to be part of the group. They are to be completely shunned as well. Most people who leave just play spiritually weak and fade away. They are called inactive and are shunned by the congregation but get to keep their family (usually some families shun an inactive but most do not). That's what I was for 27 years. It's seems they are cracking down on us too because after 27 years out my mom was told I was to be "viewed as disfellowshipped". My offenses (mind you, I was 46 freaking years olf at the time)...smoking and celebrating holidays. I offered to quit smoking (and since have) but it was a no go. There are instructed to treat us as dead...not even an email. It's not like I tried to entice her into a cup of egg nog.
That is a very sad story and one that no person should have to go through. I cannot think of any way a rational person can defend the practice of shunning.
To be fair, I don't think that they are referring to a biological sister of hers. She is referred to as "Sister" So-and-so, as is the other girl, or woman. The term "Sister" or "Brother" is used to signify anyone in the church.
It's still disgusting behavior, though, and thoroughly awful.
To be fair, I don't think that they are referring to a biological sister of hers. She is referred to as "Sister" So-and-so, as is the other girl, or woman. The term "Sister" or "Brother" is used to signify anyone in the church.
It's still disgusting behavior, though, and thoroughly awful.
I watched it again to see if that could be the case. While it's true they refer to each other as spiritual brothers and sisters, she is talking about a fleshy sister. She said one of MY sisters. If she was referring to someone else in the congregation she would say one of THE sisters. The distinction would be known to the audience.
I watched it again to see if that could be the case. While it's true they refer to each other as spiritual brothers and sisters, she is talking about a fleshy sister. She said one of MY sisters. If she was referring to someone else in the congregation she would say one of THE sisters. The distinction would be known to the audience.
Totally off topic, but WAY TO GO! Not an easy thing to do, and the fact that you did it for your mom makes it especially lovely. I hope she comes around, L8.
Thanks Pleroo. She didn't take me up on that and it took another 2 years for me to quit. I just wanted to offer her something in case she wasn't too sure about shunning me. She was though. It's not about the smoking or the Christmas presents; it's manipulating someone back into the group. That's the real point to this as well as holding someone's family hostage that might try to leave or speak out. If I'm "viewed as disfellowshipped" I couldn't just stop the offending behavior and become unshunned anyway. I would have to go through a "reinstatement" process where I would have to meet with 3 elder's and discuss everything I could have possible done wrong in the past 30 years. I would have to give intimate details of my sex life with my husband(yes in front of 3 men but it might be fun to have a 46 year old woman describe kinky details instead of the scared young women they are used to questioning. I might even make some stuff up).
Over the course of the next 6 months to a year (maybe longer) I would have to attend all the meetings and undergo indoctrination Bible studies while still being shunned. Then, if they same 3 men decided I was repentant enough I would be reinstated and unshunned. Yippee! The disfellowshipped person sits in the back of the hall and no one is to talk to them or make eye contact until they are reinstated. They are to come in, sit down, listen to the meeting, then leave as soon as the study concludes.
Thanks Pleroo. She didn't take me up on that and it took another 2 years for me to quit. I just wanted to offer her something in case she wasn't too sure about shunning me. She was though. It's not about the smoking or the Christmas presents; it's manipulating someone back into the group. That's the real point to this as well as holding someone's family hostage that might try to leave or speak out. If I'm "viewed as disfellowshipped" I couldn't just stop the offending behavior and become unshunned anyway. I would have to go through a "reinstatement" process where I would have to meet with 3 elder's and discuss everything I could have possible done wrong in the past 30 years. I would have to give intimate details of my sex life with my husband(yes in front of 3 men but it might be fun to have a 46 year old woman describe kinky details instead of the scared young women they are used to questioning. I might even make some stuff up).
Over the course of the next 6 months to a year (maybe longer) I would have to attend all the meetings and undergo indoctrination Bible studies while still being shunned. Then, if they same 3 men decided I was repentant enough I would be reinstated and unshunned. Yippee! The disfellowshipped person sits in the back of the hall and no one is to talk to them or make eye contact until they are reinstated. They are to come in, sit down, listen to the meeting, then leave as soon as the study concludes.
Thank whatever god you want, they only form less than 1% of the population.
The fact they are perversely proud of that fact only emphasizes how little they have to offer.
Thanks Pleroo. She didn't take me up on that and it took another 2 years for me to quit. I just wanted to offer her something in case she wasn't too sure about shunning me. She was though. It's not about the smoking or the Christmas presents; it's manipulating someone back into the group. That's the real point to this as well as holding someone's family hostage that might try to leave or speak out. If I'm "viewed as disfellowshipped" I couldn't just stop the offending behavior and become unshunned anyway. I would have to go through a "reinstatement" process where I would have to meet with 3 elder's and discuss everything I could have possible done wrong in the past 30 years. I would have to give intimate details of my sex life with my husband(yes in front of 3 men but it might be fun to have a 46 year old woman describe kinky details instead of the scared young women they are used to questioning. I might even make some stuff up).
Over the course of the next 6 months to a year (maybe longer) I would have to attend all the meetings and undergo indoctrination Bible studies while still being shunned. Then, if they same 3 men decided I was repentant enough I would be reinstated and unshunned. Yippee! The disfellowshipped person sits in the back of the hall and no one is to talk to them or make eye contact until they are reinstated. They are to come in, sit down, listen to the meeting, then leave as soon as the study concludes.
I went to the top of JW in my area a few years back. i think anyway, i don't know their power structure.
The discussions took like 2 months and 6 visits, each time they brought a person a little higher up and a science, engineer, and doctor. The old guy that kept bringing them said "you got to listen to this guy (me), he makes such sense, I just don't get it. They brought JW science guys. They didn't know what hey were talking about. I so gentle that they knew I knew but never did I let on how far past them things are.
The last meeting was with a top guy that ran 6-9 churches or something, I don't know the power structure. They thought I was something or another.
anyway, long story short. that dude came in and we made eye contact and the gig was up. i could see in his eyes he knew, I knew, in 1/2 a second. I told him don't use that bible to make money off of these people. he was out of my house in 3 min.
he was "awake", he knew exactly what I was talking about. he was one that is awake, by any of our understanding of sleeper/awake and he was dishonest. he would thrive on a forum, out in the real it not so easy to push crap belief statements over knowledge claims.
awake and dishonest ... kinda bummed me out I must say.
I am not sure why this is being criticized, well, except that it involves the Jehovah Witness religion that is often under fire.
Does anyone know why the older sister was "disfellowshipped"? Is it possible that what the older sister had done was something that any of us might not want our 10 year old daughter getting involved with if she continued to be in the life of the older sister? Too many unanswered questions to just condemn the actions in the video.
Also, there are religions that practice "shunning". It is something that I approve of. It has its place.
Disfellowshipping or shunning is a subject that comes up time and again in these forums and the internet.
A visit to JW.org discusses the subject of "shunning." I can't say that all families approach disfellowshipped individuals in the same way as one reads various testimonials or other materials about disfellowshipping but that may be more a result of individual family dynamics and circumstances than anything else.
Also, JW membership is voluntary, the rules of behavior aren't arbitrary nor are they unclear. People agree to and put into practice Biblical principles before anyone is accepted as a Witness.
An excerpt from the website:
"What of a man who is disfellowshipped but whose wife and children are still Jehovah’s Witnesses? The religious ties he had with his family change, but blood ties remain. The marriage relationship and normal family affections and dealings continue."
It's a complicated issue balancing love and mercy with the desire of having an individual restore their proper relationship with God. Yet there are consequences of an action or actions that an unrepentant individual incurs. Both have a Biblical basis.
The majority of disfellowshipping is a result of individuals who not only have committed serious sin but also unrepentant. An example is adultery. It's a selfish act by an individual who betrays his or her spouse and family and feels justified. Another example is an individual who is hypocritical in their conduct. Pious in and around other members of the congregation but in reality smoking, drinking, drugs and having sex with whomever and however. How much effort does an individual put forth to hide such conduct compared to the relatively little effort to come clean and ask for help. Big difference between people who make a serious mistake but are remorseful versus those that make a serious mistake and make little or no effort to change.
There are religions that expect less of their congregants. Not criticizing but just stating matter of fact. There are other religions that do expect congregants to expend the effort to lead moral lives (not perfect lives).
Some critics dismiss the Biblical basis for such action because it suits their lifestyles or prejudices against certain religious groups such as JWs. In addition, there is no mention of the people who do work their way back to having a proper relationship with God.
"I wrote you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindlers, or with idolaters, for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he is an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler--not even to eat with such a one."-1 Corinthians 5:9-11.
Balance that with the example of the Prodigal Son and how such individuals would be welcomed back.
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She didn't take me up on that and it took another 2 years for me to quit. I just wanted to offer her something in case she wasn't too sure about shunning me. She was though. It's not about the smoking or the Christmas presents; it's manipulating someone back into the group. That's the real point to this as well as holding someone's family hostage that might try to leave or speak out. If I'm "viewed as disfellowshipped" I couldn't just stop the offending behavior and become unshunned anyway. I would have to go through a "reinstatement" process where I would have to meet with 3 elder's and discuss everything I could have possible done wrong in the past 30 years. I would have to give intimate details of my sex life with my husband(yes in front of 3 men but it might be fun to have a 46 year old woman describe kinky details instead of the scared young women they are used to questioning. I might even make some stuff up). 
