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Old 09-23-2018, 04:37 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,087 posts, read 20,709,055 times
Reputation: 5929

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard1965 View Post
Oh, please do...

ok Firstly...and i welcome input from Jews who know their Torah better than i can -no such 'Passover release' custom is known. Further, there is evidence that the events were at Sukkhot rather than Passover, so even if such a custom had existed, it would apply here.

What was the point of the story, then? At first sight it was to have the Jews blackened further by refused to allow Pilate to save Jesus or let him off as innocent, given the story that Pilate couldn't just free him as innocent or the Jews would report him to Caesar. This is cobblers, because Pilate was a tough customer and the Sadducees played ball with him - even letting Pilate use temple treasure to build an aqueduct - an act that cause a riot amongst the Jews,(Josephus) which Pilate dealt with very swiftly, and no a word of protest from Caiaphas. It would not even make sense that Caiaphas saw Jesus as a threat the his authority (the 'Blasphemy charge is nonsense of course) as Pilate only had to assure his associate that he would not endorse any other High priest than Caiaphas during his time as Governor.

If he was convinced that Jesus was innocent, all he had to do was write to Tiberius to say that he 'Found no fault in him' (aside from the ruckus in the Temple, which is never considered as a charge either in the stone chamber or Pilate's Praetorium.

Given that it makes 'The Jews' look bad,I can't shake the idea that there is more to it that that.

My idea is - given a number of clues (and this is my own Pet theory and may be dead wrong) that Jesus mission - like that of John the Baptist was Messianic in a way that Bar Kochba would have understood, and indeed the Maccabees, who revolted against rule by Pagans, and was what the Jews did in..what 70 AD?

We are told that two bods were in Pilate's jail - Jesus, and Barabbas. One is the King of the Jews and the other is 'a Robber'. A particular kind of robber - he had made 'insurrection' and had spilled blood. Of course we go with Luke here. But Mark also mentions that Barabbas was an insurrectionist. John just calls hi a robber. and Matthew just calls him a 'notorious' prisoner. I argue that Mark and Luke who only share common material that is original to the 3 synoptic gospels suggest that Matthew toned it down because he knew what that meant.

I heard also that this Barabbas was named 'Jesus'(1). So we have two people in jail, Jesus son of God and Jesus (perhaps) Barrabbas, one Messiah and the other a zealot insurrectionist, bearing in mind that John's repentance made no sense as a ritual cleansing but plenty as a rebellion. Also note that two robbers were crucified with Jesus. Can we doubt that they were two of Barrabbas' insurrectionists?

So the Jews are asked which they prefer - Jesus son of God, the Christian figure of (Jesus) Barabbas, the zealot. They reject the Christian Jesus and go with the zealot. And thus bring down on themselves the eventual sack of Jerusalem and destruction of the Temple, and it was a belief (indeed we find it in the gospels) that it was punishment for rejecting Jesus.

That's the purpose of the 'Passover release' - to offer the Jews the choice, and they reject Jesus and opt for the zealot.

The final suggestion I dare to make is that Jesus Bar -Abbas, sounds awfully like Jesus Bar Abba. Son of the Father, which is not far from Jesus son of God.

I know it sounds like a crackpot Theory, but I'm rather attached to it. Hit the Like button.

(1) http://www.tyndale.cam.ac.uk/thgnt_b...esus-barabbas/

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 09-23-2018 at 04:46 PM..

 
Old 09-23-2018, 05:51 PM
 
6,366 posts, read 2,916,473 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
For 2,000 years Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as messiah. Why?


Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus, why Jews reject Jesus


False reasoning on their part of what the Messiah would be. They thought a mighty king was coming to defeat the romans on the spot. A mere carpenters son showed up and was telling them and showing them, they were wrong on many things, They wouldn't have that( they were apostocised at the time Jesus showed up.) No mortal army could rule Israel unless they lost Gods favor.- They rejected Jesus and hated him.. Jesus doesn't get the crown until Rev 6=1914- The war in heaven Michael defeats satan and cast him and his angels to the vicinity of the earth--Peace is taken from the earth ww1, The other 3 riders rode as well. All still ride *****. Millions upon millions died after ww1 from the filth of the slaughters, starvation, diseases, etc.
 
Old 09-23-2018, 07:35 PM
 
22,161 posts, read 19,210,182 times
Reputation: 18294
Quote:
Originally Posted by kjw47 View Post
False reasoning on their part of what the Messiah would be. They thought a mighty king was coming to defeat the romans on the spot. A mere carpenters son showed up and was telling them and showing them, they were wrong on many things, They wouldn't have that( they were apostocised at the time Jesus showed up.) No mortal army could rule Israel unless they lost Gods favor.- They rejected Jesus and hated him.. Jesus doesn't get the crown until Rev 6=1914- The war in heaven Michael defeats satan and cast him and his angels to the vicinity of the earth--Peace is taken from the earth ww1, The other 3 riders rode as well. All still ride *****. Millions upon millions died after ww1 from the filth of the slaughters, starvation, diseases, etc.

in Judaism there are clear and simple ways to recognize when Moshiach is here.
Here are two of the clearest and simplest:

1. world peace
2. everyone in the world recognizes the one God who made us all


is there world peace? no there is not
does everyone in the world recognize God ? no they do not
 
Old 09-23-2018, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,176,355 times
Reputation: 14070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
in Judaism there are clear and simple ways to recognize when Moshiach is here.
Here are two of the clearest and simplest:

1. world peace
2. everyone in the world recognizes the one God who made us all


is there world peace? no there is not
does everyone in the world recognize God ? no they do not

Don't hold your breath.
 
Old 09-23-2018, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,141 posts, read 10,438,364 times
Reputation: 2338
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tzaphkiel View Post
in Judaism there are clear and simple ways to recognize when Moshiach is here.
Here are two of the clearest and simplest:

1. world peace
2. everyone in the world recognizes the one God who made us all


is there world peace? no there is not
does everyone in the world recognize God ? no they do not
That is the Truth, those are signs of the true coming of Messiah.


But what makes this come true?


It isn't hard to figure out, why does all the people of the world suddenly recognize one God?


We can take ALL THE PROPHETS and piece the fall holy days together to get a clear picture of what happens at the coming of Messiah and exactly why the whole world accepts one single God.


The Fall Holy days are simply appointed for what they are appointed for, we can piece together what happens on Rosh Hashanah, what happens in the ten days to Yom Kippur, what happens on Tishri 15th, and then what happens on Shemini Atzeret.


The prophets speaking of the last days are continuously using language taken from the appointed high Holy days of the fall to begin what Rosh Hashanah is appointed for. Rosh Hashanah is the beginning, and it is appropriately called,'' The Feast of Trumpet,'' and even more appropriate is to be known as ,'' The LAST TRUMP.''

What happens to the nations of the world and all Gentiles during Rosh Hashanah all the way to Yom Kippur?


The coming of Messiah.


What happens to all the Gentile nations on Rosh Hashanah and the season of SUKKOT?


Zechariah 14 on Tishri 15th

12And this will be the plague with which the LORD strikes all the peoples who have warred against Jerusalem: Their flesh will rot while they stand on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths.
13On that day a great panic from the LORD will come upon them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of one will rise against the other. 14Judah will also fight at Jerusalem, and the wealth of all the surrounding nations will be collected—gold, silver, and apparel in great abundance. 15And a similar plague will strike the horses and mules, camels and donkeys, and all the animals in those camps.


All Nations will Worship the King
16Then all the survivors from the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.c 17And should any of the families of the earth not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of Hosts, the rain will not fall on them. 18And if the people of Egypt will not go up and enter in, then rain will not fall on them; this will be the plague the LORD inflicts on the nations who do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. 19This will be the punishment of Egypt and of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles.




THIS~~~~~~~~~THIS RIGHT HERE


Anyone who will not accept the feast of Tabernacles will have no rain.......


Put it completely out of your mind that this is speaking of literal rains for your grains in the field, it is speaking of a flood of spirit, and those people will want this rain from the fact that it had fallen on Judah..................


They wont be praying for clouds and real rain, it is because they saw what happened to Judah, and they wanted that rain.





20On that day, HOLY TO THE LORD will be inscribed on the bells of the horses, and the cooking pots in the house of the LORD will be like the sprinkling basins before the altar. 21Indeed, every pot in Jerusalem and Judah will be holy to the LORD of Hosts, and all who sacrifice will come and take some pots and cook in them. And on that day there will no longer be a Canaanited in the house of the LORD of Hosts.

Last edited by Hannibal Flavius; 09-23-2018 at 10:35 PM..
 
Old 09-23-2018, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Ontario, Canada
31,373 posts, read 20,176,355 times
Reputation: 14070
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hannibal Flavius View Post
That is the Truth, those are signs of the true coming of Messiah.


...snip....

Don't you hold your breath either, my friend.
 
Old 09-23-2018, 11:02 PM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,141 posts, read 10,438,364 times
Reputation: 2338
Quote:
Originally Posted by TroutDude View Post
Don't you hold your breath either, my friend.
Funny, what I wait is a flood of Noah{Hold your breath under the water?}


Personally, I think a flood of spirit will come and evolve humankind, and where we saw global death before, we see global life next.


Don't be afraid, when the flood comes, don't hold your breath, but simply believe you are born of water and air, and you can breath in both.
 
Old 09-23-2018, 11:40 PM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,087 posts, read 20,709,055 times
Reputation: 5929
Pal Hannibal, I can't have it come soon enough. But if it comes, it won't be religion that brings it. It will be rational humanism.

That's the dream anyway. I don't claim to be a prophet.
 
Old 09-24-2018, 12:46 AM
 
Location: Red River Texas
23,141 posts, read 10,438,364 times
Reputation: 2338
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER View Post
Pal Hannibal, I can't have it come soon enough. But if it comes, it won't be religion that brings it. It will be rational humanism.

That's the dream anyway. I don't claim to be a prophet.

E V O L U T I ON


You can't stop the flood, you may as well say you don't believe in Ragnarok, it doesn't matter what you think, the twilight of the gods will come, Ragnarok will be upon everyone, and the flood is a sweeping flood, there is no escape, you will change or cease, and the flood will cover every mountain.
 
Old 09-24-2018, 02:48 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,088 posts, read 29,213,961 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pruzhany View Post
For 2,000 years Jews have rejected the Christian idea of Jesus as messiah. Why?


Why Jews Don't Believe In Jesus, why Jews reject Jesus
because they WROTE the book and know it is a sham?
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