Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And I create intelligent systems that learn by modelling neurons. Systems that can predict what else you will buy at the supermarket when you buy beer, for example. Modelling aspects of consciousness using AI.
Or are you going to dismiss this as mere coincidence? Or mimicry?
It is funny watching you argue I do not know something I clearly do. Or do you, a linguist , not understand 'artificial' means?
Or were you referring to the Back Propagation Neural network? If so, please stop pretending to know what you are talking about.
You can model things with logic circuits. Computers are made out of logic circuits. Neurons are like complex logic circuits.
You think that understanding some low level aspect of a natural system means you understand the organization of the higher levels.
Neuroscientists admit they don't understand much about how the brain works. If they did, something would have passed the Turing test. Nothing did, and nothing will.
You think the mechanical, programmed, decision making performed by computers is intelligence. If it were, there would be intelligent computers, with common sense, by now. There aren't.
And, by the way, any "intelligence" computers have came from the engineers and programmers who created them.
According to atheist/materialists, the intelligence generated by human brains was not programmed. It happened by chance and natural selection.
Very little can be created by selecting from randomly generated changes. If random changes and natural selection were such a powerful creative force, its amazing creativity would have been simulated by now. And please don't mention genetic algorithms.
It has been, and not only in laboratories. All cultivated species of plants and animals have been created by humans using the mechanism of natural selection used by humans doing the selection. The mechanism was there before humans were.
It only remains for you to show why it should not have come about by natural processes but an intelligence doing it. You have been asked to produce your evidence for that several times.
One reason it's impossible, for example: The brains does not generate consciousness and intelligence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
You have claimed this several times, and I have asked you to provide evidence of your assertion. To date, you have been unable to provide any evidence to support your claim. if you don’t have any evidence, why should we believe you?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Diogenes
So where does it come from then? And how does it work? So far we have nothing from you other than assertions.
Good4Summin,
I keep waiting and looking and hoping for an answer to this, but have not seen. Forget computers and AI, just answer this question: Why do you think/say/argue that the human brain does not generate consciousness and intelligence?
And, by the way, any "intelligence" computers have came from the engineers and programmers who created them.
According to atheist/materialists, the intelligence generated by human brains was not programmed. It happened by chance and natural selection.
Very little can be created by selecting from randomly generated changes. If random changes and natural selection were such a powerful creative force, its amazing creativity would have been simulated by now. And please don't mention genetic algorithms.
I would mention the Lenski experiment. It is not a simulation, but rather real time evolution observable in the laboratory, which has arguably resulted in speciation. Powerful creative forces produced by mutation, inheritance and natural selection, indeed...
But I am not sure I understand your reluctance to address genetic algorithms, and indeed the whole host of a-life research that has gone on for years. We have all manner of simulations of biological evolution that display new, surprising, and creative results. Enough so that these simulations have been harnessed to solve real world problems that were too difficult for us to solve directly. It would appear the research in artificial life and genetic algorithms would be exactly what you would want to discuss, since you brought up the utility of simulated evolution... Is there some fundamental flaw with the entire field of research you would like to discuss, or are you just ignoring it because you don't wish to confront uncomfortable ideas and truths?
I keep waiting and looking and hoping for an answer to this, but have not seen. Forget computers and AI, just answer this question: Why do you think/say/argue that the human brain does not generate consciousness and intelligence?
Indeed. I think we can all understand the doubts about actually being able to produce anything that we would consider a conscious and intelligent computer or robot. But to call it impossible after the number of times the supposedly 'impossible' has turned up, quite apart from the astonishing development of AI, shows denial rather than rationality.
But that isn't really the argument anyway. Since all the results of observation and research seems to fit in with intelligence, consciousness and awareness being a product of the mind, what evidence can support some alternative explanation? I think we all know, because we would have heard it by now, otherwise.
It has been, and not only in laboratories. All cultivated species of plants and animals have been created by humans using the mechanism of natural selection used by humans doing the selection. The mechanism was there before humans were.
It only remains for you to show why it should not have come about by natural processes but an intelligence doing it. You have been asked to produce your evidence for that several times.
We all know that plants and animals have been bred with artificial selection. That is completely different from the idea that all species were created by chance and natural selection.
And breeders have never created a new more complex species, by the way.
I keep waiting and looking and hoping for an answer to this, but have not seen. Forget computers and AI, just answer this question: Why do you think/say/argue that the human brain does not generate consciousness and intelligence?
There is no evidence at all that it does. And there are many reasons to think that it doesn't.
I would mention the Lenski experiment. It is not a simulation, but rather real time evolution observable in the laboratory, which has arguably resulted in speciation. Powerful creative forces produced by mutation, inheritance and natural selection, indeed...
But I am not sure I understand your reluctance to address genetic algorithms, and indeed the whole host of a-life research that has gone on for years. We have all manner of simulations of biological evolution that display new, surprising, and creative results. Enough so that these simulations have been harnessed to solve real world problems that were too difficult for us to solve directly. It would appear the research in artificial life and genetic algorithms would be exactly what you would want to discuss, since you brought up the utility of simulated evolution... Is there some fundamental flaw with the entire field of research you would like to discuss, or are you just ignoring it because you don't wish to confront uncomfortable ideas and truths?
-NoCapo
I read aout the Lenski experiment. It is just ridiculous to think that proved neo-Darwinism.
And yes you can write programs that supposedly simulate biological evolution, but they are not biological evolution. If biological evolution were understood, it could be created, but it isn't and it can't be.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
, not understand 'artificial' means?