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Only 37% of Americans have a high or very high opinion of Clery, the lowest in the history of the polling.
Most all stats when it comes to religion are down...yet looking at the numbers it appears many Americans like the idea of a "faith tradition" whether they practice it or not, BUT - they have rejected the dogma and hierarchies. My guess is that the sexual abuses and the big money preachers, etc. have caused this downturn in belief in "god ordained" humans.
All in all, it looks a bit "new age" - or quaker, if you please. People seem to be finding religion within themselves (if any)...or maybe the better word is "spirit".
This parallels Europe - although we are many decades behind them in terms of casting off the superstitious parts of Religion. Perhaps that is due to their wars and seeing "how it really is" a bit closer up (Church was in league with Fascism, etc.)??
Anyway, interesting trends. I think we all need a foundation and whether that foundation is philosophy, experience, tradition, roots, etc. may not matter as much. We need to identify with things especially in the relatively "cold" (socially) USA.
Nurses are the highest - as perhaps they should be.
Clery is down there with journalists, funeral directors and contractors...which aren't exactly the most trusted professions.
Strangely enough, support for Trump is highest among those who think Clergy are very trustable. I guess it's not really strange since both appeal to the Authoritarian personality - those who think position in life automatically bestows someone special upon a human.
If true - and everything on the Internet needs double-checking - it would be a reflection of the condition of modern churches, culture, and the American mindset. None of these existed when the Bible / scripture came together, so it's nonsensical to attack the source based on matters occurring two thousand years later.
In the end, whoopy doo and so what? If modern churches are a problem, worship by yourself or with your own group. We don't have to depend on churches. If they stink, let 'em rot and disappear.
Jesus used the analogy of healthy fruit trees and poisoned ones. If they're sick, avoid them and let them die. But just because there are unhealthy ones doesn't mean you giving up eating
Last edited by Thoreau424; 12-27-2018 at 11:26 AM..
Still there are many leader in churches who hold a high standard and would never abuses children or people , so people should never just reject to lot for the few...... Then the few bad apples in the church of Christ are weak in faith in God , and would be an example of wickedness in the world , as you would be surprised how many leader out side religion who abuse children , in public schools, and homes, and criminals , and even state, city, and federal laws of the land abuse children .......
"But just because there are unhealthy ones doesn't mean you giving up eating"
i will give up eating that particular variety of fruit (sort of like Romaine lettuce right now).
and yes, in my opinion the Catholics have poisoned their tree by willful ignorance or complicity.
"But just because there are unhealthy ones doesn't mean you giving up eating"
i will give up eating that particular variety of fruit (sort of like Romaine lettuce right now).
and yes, in my opinion the Catholics have poisoned their tree by willful ignorance or complicity.
I truly dislike when people "defend their own" at all cost.
I hope I am still on the planet and retain enough of my cognitive faculties in 20 years or so, to assess which, if any, "religious leaders" still have the esteem of a significant portion of the population.
Jesus used the analogy of healthy fruit trees and poisoned ones. If they're sick, avoid them and let them die. But just because there are unhealthy ones doesn't mean you giving up eating
Well, if the Catholics are poisoned by sex.
And the Mormons are poisoned by racism (yeah, I know...they changed that part once cornered)....
And the Southern Baptists are poisoned by racism.
And the big mega-preachers (Fallwell, Graham, etc.) are poisoned by politics and money and power....
And many more Mega-Preachers are poisoned by wealth...
And vast numbers of other churches have sex-scandals also (our little town has experience a few...and it's only 25K people).....
So, where is the good fruit??
I have worked (volunteered) for a Jesuit who spends his entire life helping people - one of the best individuals I have been blessed to know. Yet today the wife mentioned...and I concur..."When are we gonna find out about Father Ned?" - meaning, a dynamic guy like him can't possibly be celibate. Can't happen.
The picking get slim. I get your point and I'm sure those 37% truth their clergy...the probably is, probably less than 1/2 of them are right. If true, that would put the percentage of clergy you might REALLY trust so low that you can't take the chance.
For any of us to think we "know goodness when we see it" is ridiculous...because history proves we don't. All the people that trusted those clergy and coaches, etc. weren't stupid. They were like you and I.
Eh. I think leaders of all kinds should be treated with a great deal of skepticism. Power corrupts, as does the want to conform. This is what science teaches (the Milgram experiment, Zimbardo prison study, etc.)
It's not about religious people vs. non-religious people. It's about having a system of checks and balances on people in general.
And the Mormons are poisoned by racism (yeah, I know...they changed that part once cornered)....
And the Southern Baptists are poisoned by racism.
And the big mega-preachers (Fallwell, Graham, etc.) are poisoned by politics and money and power....
And many more Mega-Preachers are poisoned by wealth...
And vast numbers of other churches have sex-scandals also (our little town has experience a few...and it's only 25K people).....
So, where is the good fruit??
I have worked (volunteered) for a Jesuit who spends his entire life helping people - one of the best individuals I have been blessed to know. Yet today the wife mentioned...and I concur..."When are we gonna find out about Father Ned?" - meaning, a dynamic guy like him can't possibly be celibate. Can't happen.
The picking get slim. I get your point and I'm sure those 37% truth their clergy...the probably is, probably less than 1/2 of them are right. If true, that would put the percentage of clergy you might REALLY trust so low that you can't take the chance.
For any of us to think we "know goodness when we see it" is ridiculous...because history proves we don't. All the people that trusted those clergy and coaches, etc. weren't stupid. They were like you and I.
We have a current Pope that is trying to blame the Churches problems on the devil. He does not realize that the carpet he is sweeping the dirt under is made of clear vinyl. He cannot put the genie back in the bottle. The pedophile problem has to be addressed and there is no way around it. There is no devil bringing down the Church; they don't need one they have a Pope!
This is also not my battle; I am an atheist and Trump supporter that usually argues with your positions. I am also watching this sudden upswing in witches and spiritualist: https://qz.com/quartzy/1411909/the-e...ans-in-the-us/. Which is also some of the aftermath of our traditional spiritual leaders not addressing their own problems. So for a change; we are on the same side.
We have a current Pope that is trying to blame the Churches problems on the devil. He does not realize that the carpet he is sweeping the dirt under is made of clear vinyl. He cannot put the genie back in the bottle. The pedophile problem has to be addressed and there is no way around it. There is no devil bringing down the Church; they don't need one they have a Pope!
This is also not my battle; I am an atheist and Trump supporter that usually argues with your positions. I am also watching this sudden upswing in witches and spiritualist: https://qz.com/quartzy/1411909/the-e...ans-in-the-us/. Which is also some of the aftermath of our traditional spiritual leaders not addressing their own problems. So for a change; we are on the same side.
same here. I think a lot people can't separate emotion from logic sometimes. I am the only atheist in my family and my siblings are strong willed.
To me, some catholics can't deal with "loving god" through their religion from "hating the actions" of the people in the religion. Its like they have to support a teamie no matter what. they can't process "hating" and "loving". lmao, if fears the human processor out.
of course I apply the same logic to "we need a change". I am not just getting out of the way to let the more mean spirited atheist by to reek havoc on the regular person. I need a reason past anti-religious.
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