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OK. I just think there are a fair number of people on this forum who do not feel the urge or the obligation to explain why we believe or practice such and such to anyone unless we know that person is interested in learning about or shares those beliefs or wants to discuss them without feeling the need to argue about or defend them.
But that's OK, you've still got plenty who want to argue.
For this particular instance, gabfest asked which versions of the Bible has been debunked. It seemed to me that was asking for a response, and I was not violating a person who only wanted to stay in the world of faith. As an example, Casual visitor has repeatedly said he holds his views in faith and is not interested in defending them on the basis of evidence or logic. I have respected that viewpoint and had a very civil exchanfe of views with that poster.
Right again, Harry. Pointing out fallacy and weaknesses in reasoning methods is Not an ad hominem attack, though the Jesus -apologists represent it as such, or pretend they do in hopes to score a point; they don't score many, after all.
On the other hand, their attacks on atheism are ad hominem, and not even true. Quite aside that they won't stop making the claims even when we explain where they are misrepresenting us.
Calling me out directly and saying I'm a liar is an ad hominem attack. Having a general negative opinion about atheists is not.
Calling me out directly and saying I'm a liar is an ad hominem attack. Having a general negative opinion about atheists is not.
I think you have this backwards, depending on circumstances.
Calling somebody a liar, IF they are truly lying, is not ad hominem, as it is not an unjust attackon character or personality. Of course, if they are not lying, then it is ad hominem.
If you use a group identity in a negative manner, as opposed to simply holding a negative opinion, that would be ad hominem, as your intent would be to discredit the person, not the argument. Holding a general negative opinion of a group isn’t in itself ad hominem, but there are other negative words that could apply.
Calling me out directly and saying I'm a liar is an ad hominem attack. Having a general negative opinion about atheists is not.
Calling you a liar is perhaps a bit strident, but insisting that you are right when you are demonstrably wrong (which has been the case a number of times) hardly gives you reason to play the persecuted martyr.
On the other hand, having a negative view of atheists and atheism is only what we expect. Misrepresenting atheists, atheism and the atheist rationale, especially in the face of repeated explanatory correction, is however coming close to calculated ad hominem, lying and other terms not permitted under ToS.
Don't get me wrong we don't mind. Pointing it out just does the atheist cause more good.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fishbrains
I think you have this backwards, depending on circumstances.
Calling somebody a liar, IF they are truly lying, is not ad hominem, as it is not an unjust attackon character or personality. Of course, if they are not lying, then it is ad hominem.
If you use a group identity in a negative manner, as opposed to simply holding a negative opinion, that would be ad hominem, as your intent would be to discredit the person, not the argument. Holding a general negative opinion of a group isn’t in itself ad hominem, but there are other negative words that could apply.
I hate it when I post something and find that you beat me to it.
Obviously that is not correct. But if I have made an error in my post, i would ask you to point it out so that I may learn from it and avoid it in the future.
NOTE: This thread was started on 3/30/2019 by the OP. And, as though to second what the OP said and take it cven somewhat further in its impact, today (Saturday, 4/13/2019), one of the news articles on the CNN.COM website has the following title:
"There are now as many Americans who claim no religion as there are evangelicals and Catholics, a survey finds"
As to the CNN article "taking it somewhat further than the OP has stated", not only do "Nones" poulation in America at least equal the evangelical population in Ameica but even at least equals the Catholic population in America. However you feel about it (pro or con), it is what it is.
Calling you a liar is perhaps a bit strident, but insisting that you are right when you are demonstrably wrong (which has been the case a number of times) hardly gives you reason to play the persecuted martyr.
On the other hand, having a negative view of atheists and atheism is only what we expect. Misrepresenting atheists, atheism and the atheist rationale, especially in the face of repeated explanatory correction, is however coming close to calculated ad hominem, lying and other terms not permitted under ToS.
The sad irony is that atheist behavior on this very forum only reinforces the negative view. Instead, it is arrogant, pompous, know it all, I'm the supreme expert in EVERYTHING type attitudes and trying to justify blatant mockery of Christians that show the rot inside. If you claim that I have not be directly insulted then you are either being dishonest or have a distorted view of reality.
For this particular instance, gabfest asked which versions of the Bible has been debunked. It seemed to me that was asking for a response, and I was not violating a person who only wanted to stay in the world of faith. As an example, Casual visitor has repeatedly said he holds his views in faith and is not interested in defending them on the basis of evidence or logic. I have respected that viewpoint and had a very civil exchanfe of views with that poster.
It wasn't really a criticism of you or anything you did. Something in your post just set off the thought in my head, I guess saying that it's on each one of us to establish the truth in what we do or don't believe. Some of us aren't trying to establish the truth for anyone else just be mentioning our practices or beliefs. That was my point.
And you are right about Casual Visitor (and yourself).
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