The LINT Papers part 1 (Buddhists, Buddha, priest, reincarnate)
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......, Come on. you know that I cannot sit by and not point out that something I believe to be a sham is in fact a sham and I can show how it is a sham.
Sham because 'Easter' (Resurrection of Spring) and Lent fasting is Not in Scripture.
What is in Scripture is that food does NOT commend us to God according to 1st Corinthians 8:8.
So, whether we eat or don't eat it does Not bring us nearer or closer to the God of the Bible.
What is in Scripture is that Jesus wants us to remember: the day of his death - Luke 22:19
Yes, scripture for Paul came from texts found in our OT, but he also uses a lost text.
....
He does? I never noticed that one. Could you direct me to where I can find some indication of a lost text he is using? I only saw identifiable OT and some ideas of his own.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
As an alternative to your lying hypothesis, Harry, I would argue that Paul brought a deeper understanding of the Torah to those who simply were not ready for it. The Kabbalah is at least two spiritual levels above the simple reading of the Torah and few there are who grasp it. Paul was apparently one who did and recognized Jesus as far more than another rabbi or worldly Messiah. The task, however, was to present it in a way that the average bear could get some handle on. That is not to say Paul had no personal failings or faults. (Obviously, I have no problem accepting his spiritual encounter with Christ.)
We'll leave the lying to you, Mystic. I agree with Harry's idea of ..what..analogy, did he say? There's a lot of metaphor and symbolism. For instance the cursing of the fig tree depicted as an actual event Just before (significantly) Jesus does the ruckus in the Temple, but I reckon shows (like the symbolism of the sheltering chicken wings and weeping of Jerusalem and indeed 'look at the trees') that the Jewish acceptance of Jesus was not going to flourish and ripen and thus Jerusalem would be punished by being destroyed.
I do, however, think there is a basic story presented as being actual events with Jesus mission to announce his messiaship and giving miracle proofs of it. Plus of course the crucifixion which (to me) has to be a real event. It is heavily overlaid with Christian views, beliefs and propaganda shoved into Jesus' mouth, but that's polemics rather than analogy or symbolism.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 02-21-2021 at 06:33 PM..
He does? I never noticed that one. Could you direct me to where I can find some indication of a lost text he is using? I only saw identifiable OT and some ideas of his own.
Those ideas of his own are from an advanced understanding of the spiritual Torah beyond the written Torah and oral Talmud.
Those ideas of his own are from an advanced understanding of the spiritual Torah beyond the written Torah and oral Talmud.
Thank you, but (".. he also uses a lost text..." you said) could you direct me to some passages in his letters that will show that he is reading (it would have to be quoting) from some unknown Torah, scripture or text, no matter how he interprets it?
Your hypothesis to explain Paul is that he was lying.
No, my position is that we do not have enough information to know how much he lied, or if he was mentally ill or not. His letters tell us what he believed, where his knowledge came from (scripture and visions), and how passionate he was, but they do not tell us how dishonest he was or his mental health.
The clever ruse that no God is needed is known as begging the question since we do not know what is needed for Reality to exist because we do not know what Reality is or is not. The supernatural nonsense is also superfluous since there is no such thing anyway just what is not currently understood.
No, it is an observation. We do not need a god to explain why galaxies form, or why we evolved. Your 'we do not know' is an admission you have no evidence for gods.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Because it is never left at "we do not know." They want to assert the default is, therefore no God exists until proven otherwise which is an unsupportable premise because we do not know to what the existing evidence belongs.
Sham because 'Easter' (Resurrection of Spring) and Lent fasting is Not in Scripture.
What is in Scripture is that food does NOT commend us to God according to 1st Corinthians 8:8.
So, whether we eat or don't eat it does Not bring us nearer or closer to the God of the Bible.
What is in Scripture is that Jesus wants us to remember: the day of his death - Luke 22:19
He does? I never noticed that one. Could you direct me to where I can find some indication of a lost text he is using? I only saw identifiable OT and some ideas of his own.
1 Corinthians 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
He is literally quoting a text we no longer have.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TRANSPONDER
I agree with Harry's idea of ..what..analogy, did he say? There's a lot of metaphor and symbolism. For instance the cursing of the fig tree depicted as an actual event Just before (significantly) Jesus does the ruckus in the Temple, but I reckon shows (like the symbolism of the sheltering chicken wings and weeping of Jerusalem and indeed 'look at the trees') that the Jewish acceptance of Jesus was not going to flourish and ripen and thus Jerusalem would be punished by being destroyed.
The fig tree represents Old Judaism and it's Temple worship*, Jesus is the New Judaism where Jesus replaces the need to worship at the temple. That is why we have the Temple ruckus between the 2 parts of the fig tree story.
* cursing the fig tree for not bearing fruit in the season when fig trees do not bear fruit does not make literal sense.
No, my position is that we do not have enough information to know how much he lied, or if he was mentally ill or not. His letters tell us what he believed, where his knowledge came from (scripture and visions), and how passionate he was, but they do not tell us how dishonest he was or his mental health.
I'll bet my pension that Paul was dishonest, or at least a fiddler, even if he shut his eyes to it, not only in playing fast and loose with the OT to give spurious authority to his own argument, but also in being crafty about claiming to be as much an apostle as those who (so I'm inclined to believe) actually followed Jesus.
I'm also a bit suspicious about how he expostulates about not being guilty of scrounging off the churches, and his bland admission that he played the Jew to Jews but the Gentile to Gentiles, just to present an attractive face to them. Used car salesman, trust me, like a couple of those evangelists.
He does? I never noticed that one. Could you direct me to where I can find some indication of a lost text he is using? I only saw identifiable OT and some ideas of his own.
We'll leave the lying to you, Mystic. I agree with Harry's idea of ..what..analogy, did he say? There's a lot of metaphor and symbolism. For instance the cursing of the fig tree depicted as an actual event Just before (significantly) Jesus does the ruckus in the Temple, but I reckon shows (like the symbolism of the sheltering chicken wings and weeping of Jerusalem and indeed 'look at the trees') that the Jewish acceptance of Jesus was not going to flourish and ripen and thus Jerusalem would be punished by being destroyed.
I do, however, think there is a basic story presented as being actual events with Jesus mission to announce his messiaship and giving miracle proofs of it. Plus of course the crucifixion which (to me) has to be a real event. It is heavily overlaid with Christian views, beliefs and propaganda shoved into Jesus' mouth, but that's polemics rather than analogy or symbolism.
Any missing texts would be the Zoharic texts of the Kabbalah. Those contain the advanced spiritual interpretations of the Torah and Talmud. What Harry calls lying were Paul's attempts to "dumb down" the concepts for their primitive carnal minds to understand and accept. That was also the reason for Jesus' parables and other "carnal milk."
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I agree with Harry's idea of ..what..analogy, did he say? There's a lot of metaphor and symbolism. For instance the cursing of the fig tree depicted as an actual event Just before (significantly) Jesus does the ruckus in the Temple, but I reckon shows (like the symbolism of the sheltering chicken wings and weeping of Jerusalem and indeed 'look at the trees') that the Jewish acceptance of Jesus was not going to flourish and ripen and thus Jerusalem would be punished by being destroyed. 
