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Just curious what religious/biblical scholars have to say about this now that it's available since suicide itself, as least as I was taught in Catholicism, is a sin since it represents despair and thus a lack of faith in God and also interferes with God's plan/will for one's life. In the face of terminal cancer or other life-ending disease, however, does the same apply? I would think so, but am interested to hear what others believe on the subject...
Your question made me curious as to whether the Episcopal Church has a formal stance on the subject. I did a search, and found this report from Pew Research about the opinion of different religions (and was somewhat surprised at the answer to what I originally looked for).
Then, as I am staying in a country that has a MAiD law, Medical Assistance in Dying, I looked up our counterpart here. The Canadian Anglican Church, previously against it, decided to accept MAiD and focus instead on providing care to those contemplating assisted suicide.
Well, lots of formal religions (churches) have become much more liberal in their positions on many issues. I was wondering about what the Bible might indicate about it, as it were.
Well, I've always thought of suicide as 'self-murder' and therefore a sin, though I never believed that a person who commits suicide goes to hell. And that, yes, suicide imposes your will over God's will for your life.
But now I'm 68 years old and alone in life and find myself with the attitude that if I should ever become physically or mentally invalid and unable to care for myself I would just sit myself down and let myself die of thirst (no physician assistance needed) and put an end to it because I will not live like that. That's my story.
Well, lots of formal religions (churches) have become much more liberal in their positions on many issues. I was wondering about what the Bible might indicate about it, as it were.
I think you've got "Thou shalt not kill" and after that, the diversions begin.
Quote:
Is suicide a sin? Many people assume the Bible condemns taking one’s own life. However, even a careful reader will search in vain for any explicit prohibition of self-killing in the Bible. In fact, the biblical attitude toward suicide ranges from ambivalence to praise. There are seven unambiguous examples of suicide in the Bible: Abimelech, mortally wounded by a millstone, ordered his armor-bearer to dispatch him to avoid the suggestion he had been slain by the woman who had thrown the stone (Judg 9:52-54); the prophet Ahithophel hanged himself after betraying David (2Sam 17:23); Zimri burned down his house around himself after military defeat (1Kgs 16:18); and the more familiar stories of Saul and his armor-bearer (1Sam 1:1-6; 1Chr 10:1-6), Samson, (Judg 16:28), and, of course, Jesus’ disciple Judas—although it is only in Matthew’s Gospel where he kills himself (Matt 27:3-5; compare with Acts 1:18). There is nothing in any of these stories to suggest that the biblical narrators disapprove of the characters’ suicides.
I was taught at Catholic school that “despair†was the worst of all sins.
That theory or assertion doesn’t add up now.
Of course suicide is still a grave sin, but not unforgivable.
Assisted suicide by someone else is assisted murder.
In many ways palliative care is also a passive form of assisted suicide, as just doping someone up with morphine (when they are likely semi-conscious anyway) , is expediting the process.
And yes I’ve seen it happen, in relatives that have died in hospitals or nursing homes.
I don't believe in suicide and will never agree to it ..... So if the doctor puts me down, that is his business ....... My life insurance does not pay and will be void with suicide
"My life insurance does not pay and will be void with suicide"
Life insurance is for accidental death. We all should be able to say... enough, I do not want to live anymore, "put an end to my suffering". My family is well aware of my position, there will be no heroic measures to prolong my life, should I no longer be able to care for myself.
We should all be allowed to die with dignity.
The problem with that lies with the medical community, they can choose to accept my decision, or ignore it, basically taking the position that they are going to make the decision for me, even tho' I have given end of life instructions.
The definition of "murder" is the taking of one's life against their will. If you're committing suicide, you cannot murder yourself because death is not against one's will.
I'm a huge supporter of euthanasia, to be honest. Religion and these ancient and meaningless superstitions are just more roadblocks into the humane treatment of our fellow human beings.
Granted, euthenasia should not be used just because, for instance, some teenager got his heart broken and now feels like dying. Of course not. Those afflicted with very temporary problems - especially when the person is young - should not be allowed any form of assisted suicide.
But there are a lot of people out there whose lives have essentially dead-ended - either through physical or mental disability. Often times both. In truth, I've thought about it on several occasions and wondered if I should go through with it should it ever become available.
But because of these inane beliefs, all of us have to suffer whether we believe in this nonsense or not. I know from first-hand experience what it's like to hit the end of the line ... to die before you die, if you know what I mean. And none of the usual platitudes work on me since they don't apply.
My life is my own - to do with as I please. No one can say killing yourself "interferes with God's plan" because if you believe that, then you must also believe in predestination. In other words - we do not have free will. Every thing we do is preordained to occur. We're just carrying out our lives like a computer running a program, totally incapable of acting on our own. It just seems that we are because we don't know the future. Is that what religion teaches you? Because I hear endless arguments about god giving us free will. So what good is a "divine plan" if we can thwart it over and over with our unpredictable behavior?
I've also heard the equally ridiculous expression, "God knows just how wide your shoulders are; he'll never give you a load you can't carry."
Well, if that silly platitude were true, no one would commit suicide or wish to be euthanized ... would they. Of course not.
Allowing a person you love to lay there in a hospital bed, tubes all over the place, needles sticking in their arms. They're barely conscious or aware because they're so doped up on pain meds. There is no hope of recovery, no hope of a cure. And he or she lays there begging to be released, begging for death.
And our wonderful religion prevents us from granting that peace. Instead, let's all gather around our loved one's hospital bed and watch as he/she is tortured by his/her own body! It's almost as bad as in the medieval days when everyone would turn out to the town square to watch some criminal be tortured. Except at least the criminal is eventually allowed to die. Whereas the person you love must lay there day after week after month after year, knowing they will never be able to participate in life ever again - no more Christmas mornings or Thanksgiving dinners. No bike rides at sunset or walks through the park. No more gardening or romantic evenings or watching a movie or going on roadtrips. No, that person's life has now become a sterile hospital room, the constant beeping of machines and basic cable his/her only nonstop companion.
And why is that not torture? How anyone can be opposed to, say, waterboarding while allowing their loved ones to lay there in agony and utter depression and despair ...
How could ANYONE worship a god and call it "good and just" if that kind of unending pain of both mind and body is part of the "divine plan," hmm? How couldn't ANYONE question the morality of such a cruel and vindictive, sadistic god?
Because god being all-powerful, there is no doubt that god could have accomplished his plan using some other method than horrific torture of an innocent. Right? A god with limitless power also has limitless options to solve a problem or accomplish a goal. If this involves the horrible torture of someone losing control of their bodily functions - having to sit in their own crap and urine in some nasty nursing home - not even being able to bathe themselves or eat or put on their clothes - really? It means god CHOSE that fate for your loved one. It didn't happen by accident or random chance... did it. No. So if you believe in this divine plan nonsense, then you better get used to worshiping a rather malignant god.
This freedom we atheists have is sooo much better than being trapped in this life by 3,000 year-old dogma written by some Bedouin tribe that knew nothing about the world they lived in. Everything that happened in their lives was credited with gods and the supernatural - oh god is pleased or oh no god is angry. Their whole lives were dedicated to walking that endless tight rope between an angry god and a pleased god. What an awful way to live, always fearful of the next angry outburst from a god they've never seen.
Unfortunately, most people are not all that good at putting themselves in someone else's shoes. They may go to visit Aunt Sally at the nursing home, so muddled with dimentia and Alzheimers that Aunt Sally starts screaming for security thinking a bunch of strangers just invaded her cinder block little room that she shares with someone paralyzed with ALS. Never mind that she had asked for euthanasia before she got to this point but - oh no - religion says we have to keep her alive so she lives in a constant fugue state while the family's bank account is drained dry - well, neice Kathy and nephew Kevin can forget about that college fund and already they had to sell their house and move into an apartment.
And all the while no one can really, truly understand what Aunt Sally is going through. How could they? Once the family files out of the nursing home after their monthly visit with Aunt Sally, they immediately focus on their own lives. Dad is gunning for a promotion. Mom has a project due at the end of the week. Daughter Stacy has a piano recital and an algebra exam this week while Son Eddie is going to be playing in the football state championships ... and Aunt Sally is all but forgotten in that horrible place. No one gives her a second thought except when the bills arrive.
We treat our pets with more dignity and respect than we do our own family members. At least when the pet dog or cat is suffering, we humanely put them down. We don't *force* them to remain alive, miserable and in pain.
I'll leave you with a true story. There was a woman whose name I can't remember. She was diagnosed with Alzheimer's. She said that she wanted to be euthanized before she reached the point when she could not take care of herself. Well, when that time finally arrived, of course the authorities argued that because nothing was in writing, they couldn't euthanize her - and she was too far gone to express her wishes. There was a big battle over this - and the woman in a lucid moment said she simply wouldn't eat. She would refuse food and starve to death. So the authorities got a court order forcing the woman to be fed through an IV ... like it or not, you WILL stay alive and you WILL accept this health care we're forcing on you.
And as I was reading this story, I thought to myself: There are tens of millions of people in this country who are just begging for an opportunity to receive health care - and they can't get it because in this country, health care is just another luxury like a big house or fancy car. And here is this one woman who does not WANT health care and so they are forcing it on her. How f-ing crazy is that? Think about it.
This inability to "die with dignity" is one of the saddest chapters of modern life. And it needs to end.
Just curious what religious/biblical scholars have to say about this now that it's available since suicide itself, as least as I was taught in Catholicism, is a sin since it represents despair and thus a lack of faith in God and also interferes with God's plan/will for one's life. In the face of terminal cancer or other life-ending disease, however, does the same apply? I would think so, but am interested to hear what others believe on the subject...
Though I am not a Bible scholar, I think some religions scorn suicide because it is definitive/absolute, and the act supersedes a Creator God. In other words, it's an act of insubordination because life was not allowed to run its course. It is a where there's life, there's hope type of philosophy. Unfortunately, life can be painful, and many do want out of it, Creator God or not.
On another note, if I were a physician, I would not knowingly assist anyone with suicide; most people know how to die on their own.
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