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It seems a strange thing looking back, but that was just the way it was. I have certainly discussed religion with my kids, but with my parents, it just didn't feature much in our lives.
In a sense, it felt like going through the motions.
Certainly gives people like you an opportunity to describe atheists in the most negative manner you know how, but fortunately there are others not so heavily bent upon doing the same sort of thing, over and over and over again...
I said the level of devotion to and promotion of their view was 'impressive"...and that, "they certainly belong here".
Your interpretation of that as, "describe atheists in the most negative manner I know how" is way off base.
It's because those are the things you find to be negative about the Mainstream/Abrahamic Religions: Don't "stay in their lane", "mind their business", or "keep their beliefs to themselves", etc.
But, I don't see that as negative...as every product, service, idea, status, orientation, vocation, or endeavor is pushed to the max in this world. So, why not whatever Theology/Religion?
I said the level of devotion to and promotion of their view was 'impressive"...and that, "they certainly belong here".
Your interpretation of that as, "describe atheists in the most negative manner I know how" is way off base.
It's because those are the things you find to be negative about the Mainstream/Abrahamic Religions: Don't "stay in their lane", "mind their business", or "keep their beliefs to themselves", etc.
But, I don't see that as negative...as every product, service, idea, status, orientation, vocation, or endeavor is pushed to the max in this world. So, why not whatever Theology/Religion?
Hmmm. You suggest I read your comment quite incorrectly, so I went back to have another look and check myself. You wrote the following...
"Why wouldn't/shouldn't the Atheist Religion adherents be on this forum?
In fact...they fervently preach the virtues of their views (and how it is The Superior View, relative to other Beliefs) and proselytize with the best of them.
The depth of their convictions, their prolific pontification, and the endurance of their evangelizing is impressive.
They certainly belong here."
To suggest I/we "fervently preach" anything is somewhat insulting. Also to suggest a "Superior View" rather than simply accept an exchange of opinion regarding different views. Insulting as well. Not so much "negative about the Mainstream/Abrahamic Religions," but simply the aspects that seem to suggest those beliefs are not well justified. In some ways that can be considered a negative as well. In part as you go onto explain by way of the few examples you put in quotes. Either way, such as it is, your comment still reads rather negative to me rather than neutral or positive. I mean, "proselytize with the best of them?" "Prolific pontification?" "Endurance of their evangelizing?"
The last part I don't even understand any better than why you capitalize or put in quotes some of the words in your comment like you do...
"Impressive" in quotes suggests you mean something other than what the word impressive actually means. Indeed, it all reads rather facetiously to me and as such perhaps taking me as a fool to suggest this is not yet another rather negative comment of yours about what atheists are doing here?
Or maybe it's the fact that you have a rather long singular history of berating atheists in this forum that has me assuming you were only doing the same thing with this comment as well. Of no real importance to me, since I know we don't see "eye to eye" about this subject more generally speaking, but just saying...
We never talked about religion at home.
I had a single conversation with my mother when I asked her if she believed in god. She shrugged her shoulders and said she didn't really know. That was the sum total. I never asked my father.
We went to church for the big events, I suspect because that's what everyone else was doing. And I went to a Church of England School, so we had assemblies every day where we had to recite the Lords Prayer, and there was usually some parable or some story with a moral. RE was mandatory in the UK. Still is I think.
I went to Sunday school for a very short time but I absolutely detested every minute of it so my parents didn't force me to go for long. I suspect my parents were agnostic.
Honestly this is pretty typical of a lot of British households in the 60's. There was a sort of cultural Christianity. A vague hanging on to traditions... just because.
Seems to prove out the fact that the less religious exposure at a young age, the less likely one will become religious. In part because with a non-religious upbringing there isn't the "fear factor" instilled in kids at a young age. A factor that is psychologically not easy to shake even as we get older. It seems many people raised to "fear God" or hell or instilled with the concern about not making their way to heaven have a difficult time coming to think otherwise. I know it worked with me for a good long time during my childhood anyway...
Hmmm. You suggest I read your comment quite incorrectly, so I went back to have another look and check myself. You wrote the following...
"Why wouldn't/shouldn't the Atheist Religion adherents be on this forum?
In fact...they fervently preach the virtues of their views (and how it is The Superior View, relative to other Beliefs) and proselytize with the best of them.
The depth of their convictions, their prolific pontification, and the endurance of their evangelizing is impressive.
They certainly belong here."
To suggest I/we "fervently preach" anything is somewhat insulting. Also to suggest a "Superior View" rather than simply accept an exchange of opinion regarding different views. Insulting as well. Not so much "negative about the Mainstream/Abrahamic Religions," but simply the aspects that seem to suggest those beliefs are not well justified. In some ways that can be considered a negative as well. In part as you go onto explain by way of the few examples you put in quotes. Either way, such as it is, your comment still reads rather negative to me rather than neutral or positive. I mean, "proselytize with the best of them?" "Prolific pontification?" "Endurance of their evangelizing?"
The last part I don't even understand any better than why you capitalize or put in quotes some of the words in your comment like you do...
"Impressive" in quotes suggests you mean something other than what the word impressive actually means. Indeed, it all reads rather facetiously to me and as such perhaps taking me as a fool to suggest this is not yet another rather negative comment of yours about what atheists are doing here?
Or maybe it's the fact that you have a rather long singular history of berating atheists in this forum that has me assuming you were only doing the same thing with this comment as well. Of no real importance to me, since I know we don't see "eye to eye" about this subject more generally speaking, but just saying...
Here's what's wrong with his pronouncements in this regard...at least from my perspective.
1. As an atheist, I have no desire to have him or any other person become an atheist. Providing he lives within the law, he and others are free to be whatever they wish to be in terms of religion and spirituality. That is hardly proselytizing.
2. I want him, and christians, to accept the same thing they hand out. If they're going to tell me why atheism is wrong, I want them to accept me telling them why I think christianity (or whatever) is wrong. If they're going to tell me that I'm going to hell because I don't accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior, then I want them to accept me telling them what I expect the consequences are for their beliefs. I've never heard an atheist tell anyone they're going to hell, and I've never heard a Buddhist tell anyone they're going to hell. But I sure as heck have heard christians tell atheists and Buddhists -- either directly or indirectly -- that they're going to hell.
Here's what's wrong with his pronouncements in this regard...at least from my perspective.
1. As an atheist, I have no desire to have him or any other person become an atheist. Providing he lives within the law, he and others are free to be whatever they wish to be in terms of religion and spirituality. That is hardly proselytizing.
2. I want him, and christians, to accept the same thing they hand out. If they're going to tell me why atheism is wrong, I want them to accept me telling them why I think christianity (or whatever) is wrong. If they're going to tell me that I'm going to hell because I don't accept Jesus Christ as my personal savior, then I want them to accept me telling them what I expect the consequences are for their beliefs. I've never heard an atheist tell anyone they're going to hell, and I've never heard a Buddhist tell anyone they're going to hell. But I sure as heck have heard christians tell atheists and Buddhists -- either directly or indirectly -- that they're going to hell.
Well...
Given how many actually believe in hell, it's no surprise they're going to share that fear or warning with others. I suppose I would too, if I thought I was saving your soul from eternal damnation. Chances are you are going to hell for posting this comment too!
All makes sense when you look at these beliefs from their point of view. In fact, I've often wondered if some people posting in this forum don't often post what they do, because they believe doing so is scoring some sort of points with God. Sometimes I suspect a reward is also perceived by people who are actually doing the proselytizing in this forum. Earning God's favor. Another way to avoid hell and/or make it to heaven. Hard to blame them given this understanding.
That's some serious incentive either way, so who knows, but with beliefs, perspectives and emotions like those, it is very easy to understand how successful religion has been for so long now, and why it will continue to be successful well into the future. Regardless the actual facts or truths of these matters. Also helps to explain how difficult it is for so many people to even consider the merits of being an atheist. I know it worked wonders on me while I was a believer. I get it...
Given how many actually believe in hell, it's no surprise they're going to share that fear or warning with others. I suppose I would too, if I thought I was saving your soul from eternal damnation. Chances are you are going to hell for posting this comment too!
All makes sense when you look at these beliefs from their point of view. In fact, I've often wondered if some people posting in this forum don't often post what they do, because they believe doing so is scoring some sort of points with God. Sometimes I suspect a reward is also perceived by people who are actually doing the proselytizing in this forum. Earning God's favor. Another way to avoid hell and/or make it to heaven. Hard to blame them given this understanding.
That's some serious incentive either way, so who knows, but with beliefs, perspectives and emotions like those, it is very easy to understand how successful religion has been for so long now, and why it will continue to be successful well into the future. Regardless the actual facts or truths of these matters. Also helps to explain how difficult it is for so many people to even consider the merits of being an atheist. I know it worked wonders on me while I was a believer. I get it...
Well...
My point is...it's unreasonable for them to think that they get to say/preach whatever they wish without pushback.
Here's what's wrong with his pronouncements in this regard...at least from my perspective.
1. As an atheist, I have no desire to have him or any other person become an atheist. Providing he lives within the law, he and others are free to be whatever they wish to be in terms of religion and spirituality. That is hardly proselytizing.
As a society, we have been correcting bad ideas for thousands of years. That is not proselytizing, and pretending atheism is proselytizing is really attacking those religions that actually proselytize by pointing out it is a bad thing.
It is the same as calling atheism a religion to mock atheism, by using 'religion' as a term of derision, ironically mocking and bashing religion.
Seems to prove out the fact that the less religious exposure at a young age, the less likely one will become religious. In part because with a non-religious upbringing there isn't the "fear factor" instilled in kids at a young age. A factor that is psychologically not easy to shake even as we get older. It seems many people raised to "fear God" or hell or instilled with the concern about not making their way to heaven have a difficult time coming to think otherwise. I know it worked with me for a good long time during my childhood anyway...
In all honesty, it was a big eye opener when I moved to America. I literally never believed in hell.
I thought only a very few fringe religious fundamentalists believed it.
I also thought creationism, young earth, evolution denial etc was a very, very small minority fringe, something like the size of mormons who still believe in having multiple wives.
It was a big shock to find I had the scale of this way, way underestimated.
What I believe is pretty much the norm in the UK.
I doubt Americans care, but Brits think Americans are nutcases in this regard. I'm sorry to say that, but it's the truth.
You can get a sense of the type of scorn in this video clip from a quiz show, talking about 'The Great Disappointment'.
"Was this in America by any chance?"
"How did you guess?".
"They wont learn will they?"
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