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When I first got pregnant I was promised a better home, even though our home was fine. Now we have three boys and he is starting to get more serious about looking for a new home. He has a difficult time spending money and I've been trying to incentivize him from being too thrifty at times.
Topic #1
One of the homes he wanted was in a nice area on the water, but based on how our city is set up it would be a not the best school with very low test scores and lots of gang activity in the high school. I know that some of you might think I sound like an elitist, but I told him that if he bought this house he was also buying Christian School tuition for every kid. There is "school of choice" but they often fill up with people leaving the 2 school districts that are a bit "rougher" so Christian schools would be it. So I told him if he doesn't want to pay for Christian schools he'd have to look in the nicer school district boundaries. His mom, who is a saint, offered to pay for Christian schools for any of her grandkids, but he said no he'd pay for it if they wound up in one.
What are the pros and cons of Christian schools versus public schools. My husband seems to think not the best for some reasons.
I think Christian schools might focus on some good values and have good kids and good test scores with a safer environment.
Topic #2
We could stay in our current home, it would get more cramped as they get older, the oldest is 3.
Am I being a poor Christian if I get excited about a "fancy" home that I never thought I could live in when our current home has utility? 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, we have 5 total family members at the moment.
I also feel like I might be ruining my husband's life as he wanted to retire young when we first met, which was his biggest goal, and now he is spending lots of money on a family, which he hates to do. He makes good money and he has rental investments. His parents are wealthy and he's an only child so he isn't doing poorly...but I feel like I've destroyed his biggest life goal... It seems like I as a good Christian should try to do more to help him with his goals. He is also talking about adding a urinal if we do get a home....because we have all boys....he actually is excited about possibly paying someone to install a urinal....so maybe that can be his new life goal
I take it there are no Quaker schools in your area? As you may know, the Quaker schools in the Mid-Atlantic region (and particularly the Philadelphia area) are academically rigorous and darn-near secular (although they certainly espouse Quaker values in a non-overbearing way). In fact the Quaker schools in my area are plurality-Jewish for the most part. They also cost quite the pretty penny.
Your husband is coming into contact with the cognitive dissonance between his dreams and the Real World. It happens to all of us. It's not your fault that it isn't a perfect world. As the only child of wealthy parents, his expectations might be particularly unrealistic and the expectations he feels (rightly or wrongly) from his side of the family to be "successful" may be excessive.
I agree that it's not worth having a more commodious home if it means objectively poorer quality education for the kids.
I do not see it as a question of Christian vs public schools so much as private vs public schools. One of my grandsons is getting switched to a private school that can give him the special needs support that he requires. It's very costly, but they managed to get a scholarship. It's also about a 10 mile trip each day to get him there, but they figure it beats him getting progressively further behind and more dysfunctional because his current school wants to pretend that anyone who is not running around naked with a lampshade on their head doesn't need accommodations such as an individualized education plan (IEP).
As for ideology -- I think that some Christians have a tendency to be overly critical of public (or really more generally, secular) schools when they don't insulate their children from every idea that's "not Biblical". Let's face it, our kids will grow up in secular society, they will have to learn to deal with secular people, some of whom are also not nice people (but some of whom are very nice indeed). They will have to deal with idiot bosses, stupid policies, and mediocrity in general. They also need to learn not to give a free pass to fellow Christians when THEY are idiots, stupid or mediocre. It's not like Christians on average are better actors in the world. I don't see any evidence of that in the large and often not in the small. If you think a Christian school will be safer and a better influence -- well they might do a few things you like, such as, IDK, not spelling "Christmas" as "Xmas" but they can also install prejudices and bad attitudes in their own inimitable way.
Some Christians seem to present righteousness and piousness as this fragile thing that can't stand up to the slightest challenge. I think a public school education (all things being equal, which is a big caveat) can be very good for kids. I am a product of public schools, and I'm a good and decent human being. That I am no longer a theist has nothing to do with public schools and everything to do with the promises of god that I was suckled on being a bunch of BS. That is something the church needs to address within itself. Maybe set more realistic expectations, for starters.
Kids need to be taught good reasoning skills and I wouldn't rely on ANY type of school to do that. To whatever extent you disapprove of influences or ideas in your kid's schools, those become teaching moments for them to reason it out under your guidance and form their beliefs and where necessary, learn to stand up for themselves, etc.
Anyhoo -- as to this promise your husband gave you. Did he offer it up, or did you in some way extract it from him? If the latter, I'd let him off the hook. I don't think, particularly in today's world, that early retirement in the traditional sense is remotely feasible without inherited assets to work with, but I wouldn't give him the option to think he failed because you were asking for too much. If the roof doesn't leak and the neighborhood is safe, then some kids sharing bedrooms is a small price to pay for less financial pressure and good schools. But in fairness to you, he also has to understand that having a family is expensive if you want to do it right.
Also, FWIW, I counseled my daughter before she went out into the world to think twice, nay, thrice about having a lot of kids. She ignored me and had 5. Now she complains that she's always exhausted, tired, worried and short on cash. Guess who is not particularly sympathetic, lol. Although I do worry about her, she has a heart condition (related to / worsened by repeated pregnancies) and I wonder sometimes if she won't end up orphaning her children someday. To whatever extent you and your husband wanted a big family, this is another reason why retirement is going to be tough. All you need is one kid to end up on the autism spectrum or whatever and it's going to get twice as hard because they may never even "launch" -- this is my situation with my stepson, now going on 32 and showing no signs of becoming independent.
Life doesn't play out according to our wishes and hopes, but as it sees fit. We can but flex with it. Your husband may have to modify his dreams. You might have to also.
He's an atheist so I can see his problem with a Christian school. In that case the money should be spent on the best school district to avoid problems down the road.
It's your money too. He chose to have three children and kids are expensive as heck. You are doing the most important job of raising healthy kids. He has it good. Don't feel guilty over his choices.
Regarding taking help from parents. Ask him why. There are plenty of good reasons for that. Have a talk with him about how he would feel if you personally accepted the help from his mother and it would be understood that it had nothing to do with him. He is a fine provider but you are going to accept whatever you can get for your kids.
I take it there are no Quaker schools in your area? As you may know, the Quaker schools in the Mid-Atlantic region (and particularly the Philadelphia area) are academically rigorous and darn-near secular (although they certainly espouse Quaker values in a non-overbearing way). In fact the Quaker schools in my area are plurality-Jewish for the most part. They also cost quite the pretty penny.
And if there are no Quaker schools, are there any Christian schools in your area that are compatible with your liberal Quaker values? Mainline Protestant denominations, like Episcopalians, Presbyterians (PCUSA), and Lutherans (ELCA) may meld well. Ditto for a modern- and progressive-oriented Mennonite institution.
Evangelical and nondenominational Protestants? Probably not so much. Catholic schools can be a mixed bag, but the cheap (read: Diocese-sponsored) ones are often mediocre at best.
Based on those considerations, your local public school might be more compatible with your values than an independent religious alternative.
Purchasing the right home comes with striking balances and making compromises. I suspect an intermediate option exists between your current, cramped living situation but good public school catchment and the allure of a schmancy waterfront home with a bad public school catchment exists.
I know that finding the right home is tough, especially when growing children are involved. We love our current location in a charming and walkable inner ring suburb, but our days are numbered in our century-old Dutch Colonial, where the third bedroom can accommodate a crib but not a twin bed. Because the housing stock tends to be bimodally distributed between tiny row homes and twins and gargantuan estates, finding the perfect house in between may prove difficult. We might have to settle for the more blah and sprawling middle ring suburb to the northwest, although that downside comes with the upsides of better public schools and (for me personally) a more prominent Jewish population.
Whatever you do, I would urge you to prioritize retirement savings for you and your husband and higher education savings for your children. As for schooling, you don’t necessarily need the best of the best when many studies show rapidly diminishing marginal returns above schools that are middling in quality (i.e., not necessarily “good,” but “good enough”).
Of course, the high school with very low test scores and lots of gang activity that you describe likely falls short of this threshold. But if the neighborhood middle and/or elementary schools are decent (with the possibility, though certainly not the guarantee, of a more favorable school choice assignment for high school), maybe the waterfront home will suit you fine with the understanding that you can enroll your children in private high school (Christian or otherwise) as a backup plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
Regarding taking help from parents. Ask him why. There are plenty of good reasons for that. Have a talk with him about how he would feel if you personally accepted the help from his mother and it would be understood that it had nothing to do with him. He is a fine provider but you are going to accept whatever you can get for your kids.
Some wealthy parents (like my father) try to wield money as a weapon to push around their children. While I gladly accept, and express appropriate gratitude, for one-off gifts, I’m forever wary of vague promises of future support and am much happier treating his money as if it doesn’t exist.
However, I’m guessing that issue doesn’t apply here, since OP describes her mother-in-law as a saint.
Last edited by ElijahAstin; Yesterday at 05:29 PM..
Around here, if we do not send our grand children to Christian school, they will end with dealing with all the rainbow people etc agenda in public schools. There simply is not other option. Including "regular" private schools. The state is LGBTQ whatever else mecca.
When I first got pregnant I was promised a better home, even though our home was fine. Now we have three boys and he is starting to get more serious about looking for a new home. He has a difficult time spending money and I've been trying to incentivize him from being too thrifty at times.
Topic #1
One of the homes he wanted was in a nice area on the water, but based on how our city is set up it would be a not the best school with very low test scores and lots of gang activity in the high school. I know that some of you might think I sound like an elitist, but I told him that if he bought this house he was also buying Christian School tuition for every kid. There is "school of choice" but they often fill up with people leaving the 2 school districts that are a bit "rougher" so Christian schools would be it. So I told him if he doesn't want to pay for Christian schools he'd have to look in the nicer school district boundaries. His mom, who is a saint, offered to pay for Christian schools for any of her grandkids, but he said no he'd pay for it if they wound up in one.
What are the pros and cons of Christian schools versus public schools. My husband seems to think not the best for some reasons.
I think Christian schools might focus on some good values and have good kids and good test scores with a safer environment.
Topic #2
We could stay in our current home, it would get more cramped as they get older, the oldest is 3.
Am I being a poor Christian if I get excited about a "fancy" home that I never thought I could live in when our current home has utility? 3 bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, we have 5 total family members at the moment.
I also feel like I might be ruining my husband's life as he wanted to retire young when we first met, which was his biggest goal, and now he is spending lots of money on a family, which he hates to do. He makes good money and he has rental investments. His parents are wealthy and he's an only child so he isn't doing poorly...but I feel like I've destroyed his biggest life goal... It seems like I as a good Christian should try to do more to help him with his goals. He is also talking about adding a urinal if we do get a home....because we have all boys....he actually is excited about possibly paying someone to install a urinal....so maybe that can be his new life goal
I don’t know a lot about the Quaker denomination.
My thoughts are more towards a public education, or a lower level private school.
Myself and my kids went through a middle of the road Catholic schooling.
As others have stated, one simply cannot avoid the secular world.
Some Evangelicals will even homeschool kids to try to protect them from outside worldly influences, but ultimately that doesn’t work either.
In any event good luck with it all.
Around here, if we do not send our grand children to Christian school, they will end with dealing with all the rainbow people etc agenda in public schools. There simply is not other option. Including "regular" private schools. The state is LGBTQ whatever else mecca.
I take it there are no Quaker schools in your area? As you may know, the Quaker schools in the Mid-Atlantic region (and particularly the Philadelphia area) are academically rigorous and darn-near secular (although they certainly espouse Quaker values in a non-overbearing way). In fact the Quaker schools in my area are plurality-Jewish for the most part. They also cost quite the pretty penny.
No Quaker schools or Jewish schools. A generic Christian school and a Catholic school though.
My Quaker upbringing in Maryland is perhaps a little more liberal than the Christian schools in West Michigan, which are a little more conservative... So it isn't a perfect fit, but I do like the ideas of getting Jesus in the school and the boys having friends who might also have Jesus values.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L8Gr8Apost8
He's an atheist so I can see his problem with a Christian school. In that case the money should be spent on the best school district to avoid problems down the road.
It's your money too. He chose to have three children and kids are expensive as heck. You are doing the most important job of raising healthy kids. He has it good. Don't feel guilty over his choices.
Regarding taking help from parents. Ask him why. There are plenty of good reasons for that. Have a talk with him about how he would feel if you personally accepted the help from his mother and it would be understood that it had nothing to do with him. He is a fine provider but you are going to accept whatever you can get for your kids.
When he first asked me out on a date I said I would only go out if we ever wound up married that the kids would be raised as Quakers. He's shifted to agnostic I guess and hasn't stopped me from raising the kids religiously yet....he is pushing his more conservative libertarian politics in place of my more liberal policies.
His parents would pay for it and can easily afford it...he just has the pride and is worried as they want him to take over more and more of their businesses.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mordant
Your husband is coming into contact with the cognitive dissonance between his dreams and the Real World. It happens to all of us. It's not your fault that it isn't a perfect world. As the only child of wealthy parents, his expectations might be particularly unrealistic and the expectations he feels (rightly or wrongly) from his side of the family to be "successful" may be excessive.
I agree that it's not worth having a more commodious home if it means objectively poorer quality education for the kids.
I do not see it as a question of Christian vs public schools so much as private vs public schools. One of my grandsons is getting switched to a private school that can give him the special needs support that he requires. It's very costly, but they managed to get a scholarship. It's also about a 10 mile trip each day to get him there, but they figure it beats him getting progressively further behind and more dysfunctional because his current school wants to pretend that anyone who is not running around naked with a lampshade on their head doesn't need accommodations such as an individualized education plan (IEP).
As for ideology -- I think that some Christians have a tendency to be overly critical of public (or really more generally, secular) schools when they don't insulate their children from every idea that's "not Biblical". Let's face it, our kids will grow up in secular society, they will have to learn to deal with secular people, some of whom are also not nice people (but some of whom are very nice indeed). They will have to deal with idiot bosses, stupid policies, and mediocrity in general. They also need to learn not to give a free pass to fellow Christians when THEY are idiots, stupid or mediocre. It's not like Christians on average are better actors in the world. I don't see any evidence of that in the large and often not in the small. If you think a Christian school will be safer and a better influence -- well they might do a few things you like, such as, IDK, not spelling "Christmas" as "Xmas" but they can also install prejudices and bad attitudes in their own inimitable way.
Some Christians seem to present righteousness and piousness as this fragile thing that can't stand up to the slightest challenge. I think a public school education (all things being equal, which is a big caveat) can be very good for kids. I am a product of public schools, and I'm a good and decent human being. That I am no longer a theist has nothing to do with public schools and everything to do with the promises of god that I was suckled on being a bunch of BS. That is something the church needs to address within itself. Maybe set more realistic expectations, for starters.
Kids need to be taught good reasoning skills and I wouldn't rely on ANY type of school to do that. To whatever extent you disapprove of influences or ideas in your kid's schools, those become teaching moments for them to reason it out under your guidance and form their beliefs and where necessary, learn to stand up for themselves, etc.
Anyhoo -- as to this promise your husband gave you. Did he offer it up, or did you in some way extract it from him? If the latter, I'd let him off the hook. I don't think, particularly in today's world, that early retirement in the traditional sense is remotely feasible without inherited assets to work with, but I wouldn't give him the option to think he failed because you were asking for too much. If the roof doesn't leak and the neighborhood is safe, then some kids sharing bedrooms is a small price to pay for less financial pressure and good schools. But in fairness to you, he also has to understand that having a family is expensive if you want to do it right.
Also, FWIW, I counseled my daughter before she went out into the world to think twice, nay, thrice about having a lot of kids. She ignored me and had 5. Now she complains that she's always exhausted, tired, worried and short on cash. Guess who is not particularly sympathetic, lol. Although I do worry about her, she has a heart condition (related to / worsened by repeated pregnancies) and I wonder sometimes if she won't end up orphaning her children someday. To whatever extent you and your husband wanted a big family, this is another reason why retirement is going to be tough. All you need is one kid to end up on the autism spectrum or whatever and it's going to get twice as hard because they may never even "launch" -- this is my situation with my stepson, now going on 32 and showing no signs of becoming independent.
Life doesn't play out according to our wishes and hopes, but as it sees fit. We can but flex with it. Your husband may have to modify his dreams. You might have to also.
Yeah, life doesn't go to plan and we'd better be more careful on the baby count. I just sometimes feel like I'm more detrimental than helpful as I don't have an income and seem to have thrown him off his big goal since he first asked me out.
I just want to be someone who makes him better not makes him not achieve...especially as I don't have any personal achievements and he has a lot of them.
He offered up a nicer house when I first got pregnant, probably because I was stressed as I was a little young and we weren't married at the moment. Then a few years went by and he talked and talked about it and we had more and more kids...then he started to get more serious this spring at looking for a different home.
What are the pros and cons of Christian schools versus public schools. My husband seems to think not the best for some reasons.
When it comes to schools, I believe the quality of it has much more to do with the parents of the children attending the school than whether the school is public or private. If a student body is made up of mostly children from broken homes, single parent households, being raised by non-parents, etc. then there will tend to be more problems. Dysfunction in the home tends to spread outward. Private schools with their built-in barriers of entry (tuition cost, transportation, etc) tend to have students from more stable home environments.
Whether private or public school is the best option I believe is totally dependent on the particular schools you're looking at. I don't think there's a one size fits all rule in this regard.
Personally, I would love to have a good Catholic school near me that I could send my children to; but that doesn't exist, so we do the best we can and take it one year at a time. Over the years, we've done public school, private school, and homeschool with our children. Nothing is perfect, but some options are better than others, taking into account each individual child's needs and dispositions.
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