Is it important for your god to perform miracles? (souls, grace, disciple)

[hiker45]

Being a life-long Atheist, I do not understand what Theists want from their gods.

Is it enough that your gods keep the Universe running smoothly or do you want your gods to perform special miracles to show how powerful they are?

[lifeexplorer]

Absolutely! I'd like to see which god is better. :-)

[Woodrow LI]

No. All we need know is he has created us. That in itself is sufficient to worship our Creator. I see life as a test and learning time. It is my responsibility to seek out what I am to learn.

[hiker45]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

No. All we need know is he has created us. That in itself is sufficient to worship our Creator. I see life as a test and learning time. It is my responsibility to seek out what I am to learn.

From what I have heard, the Quran is full of miracles, like the moon splitting in two, etcetera.

But that was in the past.

Do the current Muslim leaders talk about more recent miracles? Do Muslims generally pray for miracles? It seems like Christians are always praying for a miracle of some kind.

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by hiker45

From what I have heard, the Quran is full of miracles, like the moon splitting in two, etcetera.

But that was in the past.

Do the current Muslim leaders talk about more recent miracles? Do Muslims generally pray for miracles? It seems like Christians are always praying for a miracle of some kind.

We tend to see all things as Miracles and about the only thing most of us pray for is Sabr (Patience) to face our trials.

Miracles do not seem to have as much importance to us as it does for other Faiths. We are a bit Fatalistic or stoic as we see all things that happen to us as having a purpose. Our prayers are more for be given the Strength and patience to face such and for them to pass quickly and that we may understand why we faced such.

We do not expect Allaah(swt) to be our servant and give us what we want. We more desire to learn how we can serve.

[Woodrow LI]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

We tend to see all things as Miracles and about the only thing most of us pray for is Sabr (Patience) to face our trials.

Miracles do not seem to have as much importance to us as it does for other Faiths. We are a bit Fatalistic or stoic as we see all things that happen to us as having a purpose. Our prayers are more for be given the Strength and patience to face such and for them to pass quickly and that we may understand why we faced such.

We do not expect Allaah(swt) to be our servant and give us what we want. We more desire to learn how we can serve.

While we can pray for what we desire and use our own words the most common prayers world wide are 25 ayyats from the Qur'an:



1. Our Lord! Grant us good in this world and good in the life to come and keep us safe from the torment of the Fire (2:201)


2. Our Lord! Bestow on us endurance and make our foothold sure and give us help against those who reject faith. (2:250)


3. Our Lord! Take us not to task if we forget or fall into error. (2:286)


4. Our Lord! Lay not upon us such a burden as You did lay upon those before us. (2:286)


5. Our Lord! Impose not on us that which we have not the strength to bear, grant us forgiveness and have mercy on us. You are our Protector. Help us against those who deny the truth. (2:286)


6. Our Lord! Let not our hearts deviate from the truth after You have guided us, and bestow upon us mercy from Your grace. Verily You are the Giver of bounties without measure. (3:8)


7. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and the lack of moderation in our doings, and make firm our steps and succour us against those who deny the truth.(3:147)


8. Our Lord! Whomsoever You shall commit to the Fire, truly You have brought [him] to disgrace, and never will wrongdoers find any helpers (3:192)


9. Our Lord! Behold we have heard a voice calling us unto faith: "Believe in your Lord" as we have believed. (3:193)


10. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins and efface our bad deeds and take our souls in the company of the righteous. (3:193)


11. Our Lord! And grant us that which you have promised to us by Your messengers and save us from shame on the Day of Judgement. Verily You never fail to fulfill Your promise. (3:194)


12. Our Lord! We have sinned against ourselves, and unless You grant us forgiveness and bestow Your mercy upon us, we shall most certainly be lost! (7:23)


13. Our Lord! Place us not among the people who have been guilty of evildoing. (7:47)



14. Our Lord! Lay open the truth between us and our people, for You are the best of all to lay open the truth. (7:89)



15. Our Lord! Pour out on us patience and constancy, and make us die as those who have surrendered themselves unto You. (7:126)



16. Our Lord! Make us not a trial for the evildoing folk, and save as by Your mercy from people who deny the truth (10:85-86)


17. Our Lord! You truly know all that we may hide [in our hearts] as well as all that we bring into the open, for nothing whatever, be it on earth or in heaven, remains hidden from Allah (14:38)


18. Our Lord! Bestow on us mercy from Your presence and dispose of our affairs for us in the right way. (18:10)


19. Our Lord! Grant that our spouses and our offspring be a comfort to our eyes, and give us the grace to lead those who are conscious of You. (25:74)


20. Our Lord! You embrace all things within Your Grace and Knowledge, forgive those who repent and follow Your path, and ward off from them the punishment of Hell. (40:7)


21. Our Lord! Make them enter the Garden of Eden which You have promised to them, and to the righteous from among their fathers, their wives and their offspring, for verily You are alone the Almighty and the truly Wise. (40:8)


22. Our Lord! Relieve us of the torment, for we do really believe. (44:12)


23. Our Lord! Forgive us our sins as well as those of our brethren who proceeded us in faith and let not our hearts entertain any unworthy thoughts or feelings against [any of] those who have believed. Our Lord! You are indeed full of kindness and Most Merciful (59:10)


24. Our Lord! In You we have placed our trust, and to You do we turn in repentance, for unto You is the end of all journeys. (60:4)


25. Our Lord! Perfect our light for us and forgive us our sins, for verily You have power over all things. (66:8)

We don't seem to have the need to want earthly Miracles.

[hljc]

In the bible from John 7: 20.... Some disciple from John the Baptist came to Jesus questioning Him .. And Jesus said ...``Go your way, and tell John what things you have seen and heard, how that the blind see, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, and the dead are raised, to the poor the gospels is preached .....And blessed is he, who so ever will not be offended in me ``....... See it is important to Lord Jesus , as the miracles are a sign that Jesus is alive and His purpose is truth....

[Eusebius]

Originally Posted by hiker45

Being a life-long Atheist, I do not understand what Theists want from their gods.

Is it enough that your gods keep the Universe running smoothly or do you want your gods to perform special miracles to show how powerful they are?

The God who created all does not keep the Universe running smoothly. He keeps it in a state of controlled chaos.
I do not need any miracles from God to prove His power. Raising His Son from the dead is good enough for me.

[JB from NC]

Originally Posted by Woodrow LI

While we can pray for what we desire and use our own words the most common prayers world wide are 25 ayyats from the Qur'an:
.....
We don't seem to have the need to want earthly Miracles.

That's not too unlike the Shemoneh Ezreh (18 Benedictions) found in the Amidah (the standing prayer).
It's a very moving piece of liturgy.

[hiker45]

Originally Posted by hljc

In the bible from John 7: 20.... Some disciple from John the Baptist came to Jesus questioning Him .. And Jesus said ...``Go your way, and tell John what things you have seen and heard, how that the blind see, and the lame walk, the lepers are cleansed, the deaf hear, and the dead are raised, to the poor the gospels is preached .....And blessed is he, who so ever will not be offended in me ``....... See it is important to Lord Jesus , as the miracles are a sign that Jesus is alive and His purpose is truth....

That is very interesting. Jesus used miracles to prove to people that he had some special powers, so they would take his teachings more seriously.

Woodrow, when your god wanted to reveal the Quran to Muhammad, what did he do to get Muhammad to pay attention? I read someplace that Muhammad saw a 200-foot tall Jesus coming to him, so he figured he was sent by his god. Have you heard that story?