The Jews, Christians an the Bible (salvation, souls, translation, hell)

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

Nikongirl24 post this in another thread:

Honestly, I am a Jew and I don't even believe that we are the chosen people.

Then again, I do hate the fact that I get bashed daily by Christians b/c I don't believe in hell...

I've wondered about this for a while. The Jews gave us the Bible. The book expresses their beliefs as they held them as far back as 2,000 years ago. Today, many Jews do NOT believe in many of the concepts or stories that are in the Old Testament. Some of their own respectable rabbis and scholars do not even believe some of their ancient heroes even existed OR existed in the capacity they are portrayed in the Bible and they go on the record to state this. These Jews do not believe in a literal hell (as their ancestors did), angels or a devil, all things their ancestors believed in. I'm not sure they even believe in a literal heaven either and I suspect many don't even believe in a literal god.

This change started not with their lay people but with their scholars and rabbis and the people followed suit. Now what I find curious is that many Christians, however, still hang on to these beliefs even though the people (the Jews) who passed the stories and concepts on to them, for the most part, do NOT share such beliefs anymore. In short, they are willing to admit they were simply beliefs of a time past, but hold no sway or credibility in today's world.

So how does a Christian (who still believes in these things) explain this? Do they just arrogantly conclude that all these Jews are lost, misguided souls in need of a good saving to be able to see the "truth" in these concepts and stories or should they give way to the understanding and observations of the actual people who handed down the stories?

[Nikk]

Jewish people can be just as lost as any gentile. The Torah records generation after generation of Hebrew kings who disobeyed God and did not heed his commandments. So, just because it is reccorded in the bible what people are supposed to do, or believe, doesn't mean that they will believe it. Remember, the Jewish nation was saved out of Egypt and witnessed all the miracles that were done to save them, yet in the desert they constantly disobeyed God and Moses.

We are living also in the time of the Gentiles. This time of the gentiles will soon come to a close and the Jewish nations eyes will be opened in the same manner that the eyes of saul of tarsus had his eyes opened on the road to dimascus. He said that it was as if scales fell of his eyes and he was able to see. The Isrealites put a cloth over the face of Moses so they did not have to look upon the glory of God. This same veil is still over their eyes to this day. When it comes off, it will be very dramatic and the whole earth will know it.

The Jewish nation is bound in fear and has been very fearfull for many generations. When the veil comes off their eyes, this fear will leave and they will walk and talk boldly without fear of the goodness of God and of his son, Jesus Christ.

[dcisive]

The Jewish people (Yahudah) were entrusted with protecting the Torah. The so called "new testament" a collection of letters by Jewish Talmadim (apostles) regarding their desire for both Jews and Gentiles to become aware of the gift the Messiah Yahushua brought via his being the acceptable sacrifice for intercession of the "Law of Sin and Death". The Messiah did NOT come to do away with one jot or one tittle of the Torah PERIOD. To say so is a bold faced lie and complete misunderstanding of scripture.

christianity as we know it didn't even exist. They were Netzarim, early "followers of the way". The church of Rome changed all that completely altering the original faith of the believers and polluting it with paganism, which remains today. The Sun Day sabbath is pagan to the core and was instituted by Constantine and church of rome via the Council of Leodicea. There is NO J in Hebrew (hence the Messiah's name is NOT je-sus) and ch-rist comes from the greek "christos" which was a name appointed to all of their greek gods. So hence NOT a name I would care to associate with our Messiah. He was a Hebrew and had a Hebrew name. The Hebrew written in the original manuscripts would be translated into English as "Yahushua".....Yah is our Salvation.

Indeed in the end times the scales will be removed from the Jewish people and they WILL know their Messiah. It would do xtians good to get back to their Hebrew roots and become members of the commonwealth of Israel as most are and just don't know it YET.

[kdbrich]

Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane

Nikongirl24 post this in another thread:




I've wondered about this for a while. The Jews gave us the Bible. The book expresses their beliefs as they held them as far back as 2,000 years ago. Today, many Jews do NOT believe in many of the concepts or stories that are in the Old Testament. Some of their own respectable rabbis and scholars do not even believe some of their ancient heroes even existed OR existed in the capacity they are portrayed in the Bible and they go on the record to state this. These Jews do not believe in a literal hell (as their ancestors did), angels or a devil, all things their ancestors believed in. I'm not sure they even believe in a literal heaven either and I suspect many don't even believe in a literal god.

This change started not with their lay people but with their scholars and rabbis and the people followed suit. Now what I find curious is that many Christians, however, still hang on to these beliefs even though the people (the Jews) who passed the stories and concepts on to them, for the most part, do NOT share such beliefs anymore. In short, they are willing to admit they were simply beliefs of a time past, but hold no sway or credibility in today's world.

So how does a Christian (who still believes in these things) explain this? Do they just arrogantly conclude that all these Jews are lost, misguided souls in need of a good saving to be able to see the "truth" in these concepts and stories or should they give way to the understanding and observations of the actual people who handed down the stories?

They rejected their own Messiah. Yes--they are lost w/out him.

[dcisive]

ehhh well just remember, the Messiah came and is returning for exclusively "The Lost Sheep of the House of Israel".....Yahudah IS a member and one of those tribes. So worry not, they will KNOW their Messiah when HE returns...He ain't comin for the "church"..........

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

I guess these are the responses I expected. Jews are just a bunch of blind, clueless people who do not know any better. *sigh*

[charolastra00]

Originally Posted by Nikk

The Jewish nation is bound in fear and has been very fearfull for many generations. When the veil comes off their eyes, this fear will leave and they will walk and talk boldly without fear of the goodness of God and of his son, Jesus Christ.

The only thing that could push the Jews into a false religion basking in evil such as Christianity would be the deepest of fear. Don't get your hopes up.

Few Jews have ever taken the Bible literally. We don't understand why others do. Early Jews might have, but that's more due to not having another way of explaining their world than a literal interpretation being the truth.

[Currency Pair Crocodile]

Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane

So how does a Christian (who still believes in these things) explain this? Do they just arrogantly conclude that all these Jews are lost, misguided souls in need of a good saving to be able to see the "truth" in these concepts and stories or should they give way to the understanding and observations of the actual people who handed down the stories?

What's wrong with you?

Are Jews insulated from secularism, liberalism and the like?

This is a pandemic and knows no race. Half the jews in the world don't empathise with the Israeli cause anymore.

They're content with their lives, guzzling foamy latte in Barnes & Nobles, shopping at Petsmart and following Obama on DailyKos.

How many know Ben-Gurion's real last name? Or, do they even know him LOL. For all they know it might sound like an iPhone application

[InsaneInDaMembrane]

History has a funny way of repeating itself.

1. Hebrew tribes came to prominence in ancient Canaan and claimed the natives were evil, misguided fools who needed to be exterminated in order for the "true" God to establish his people. Yahweh is the only god worth worshiping.

2. Jews figured everybody else had it all wrong and they are the chosen people and their god is the ONLY true god there is. Judaism has the only truth.

3. Gentiles Christians took over a Jewish offshoot religion and then turned around and called the people who started the religion, blind, evil, lost and children of Satan. Christianity alone has the truth.

4. Islam then comes along and claims that both Jew and Christians have it all wrong, are lost, misguided and follow a corrupt set of scriptures. Islam alone has the truth.

What are the ingredients? Scandalize the previous religion(s) with all kinds or propaganda and claim your new religion got it right. It's the old "blame and put down the other guy so you can think better of yourself" syndrome.

[Fullback32]

Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane

These Jews do not believe in a literal hell (as their ancestors did), angels or a devil, all things their ancestors believed in.

Actually their ancestors did not. Judgement was an earthly thing to them. The concept of eternal damnation was totally foreign to them. The Old Testament writings themselves prove this to be so. It was not until the other influencescame into the picture (namely Persian Zoroastrianism and Greek Hellenism) that concepts such as hell, duality, and an evil Satan and such were even considered.

Mistranslations of the the words Sheol, Gehenna, Hades, and Tartarus by the Catholic Church set the doctrines of hell and the devil into stone. English translations, such as the King James Version, made it even worse.